Class 158 vs 159

[furnessvale]

I don't see what minor and generally inconsequential modifications have to do with nationalised vs privatised rail.

The original post by dgl demonstrates that it was far more than a "minor and inconsequential modification" but rather a deliberate act by one arm of a so called unified organisation against possible actions by another arm.

Mind you, there was nothing unusual about this. The Western Region ploughed its own furrow for years with hydraulics.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

I've been told that because so many 158/159 diagrams on SWR run in multiple they run with a high degree of redundancy and as such don't cause many delays.

It certainly can't do any harm! It would be interesting to know whether there are many services with significant over-capacity with some units effectively running as ecs attached to a service train.

dont remember what the mods were , but the 159's were built as 158's for RR but was realised before they entered service that they were not required. The completed units were taken to Rosyth were they were converted to 159. At the time it was said that the conversion made them incompatible with 158's. So the original 159's never ran in service as 158's

That's only part of the story. It was just as much a BR budgetary fudge. By denying Regional Railways its last batch of 158s that Sector's notional cap-ex was reduced. At the same time Network South East was desperate to replace the unreliable traction on Waterloo-Exeter and the 158 to 159 programme provided the solution.

 

[jopsuk]

Presumably NSE would preferably have been allowed to order a Networker Turbo variant custom specified for the line?

 

[InOban]

I'm particularly interested because we're going to get 158s within the next year, and while we'd all like the aircon, I'm worried about the consequences of regular failures on our single track line.

 

[D365]

Presumably NSE would preferably have been allowed to order a Networker Turbo variant custom specified for the line?

That was the original plan - see the Class 161.

 

[edwin_m]

I have heard it said that the 159/0s originally had an additional brake step. I've seen this written in a couple of forums and websites, but I've never seen any hard proof that this was ever the case. It seems strange that a sole, relatively small class would be given a non-standard version of the ubiquitous three-step brake. Personally, without any proof, I think it's unlikely but I'm curious as to how such an idea developed.

159s gained tread brakes on the end bogies at some stage, in an attempt to improve adhesion and track circuit actuation. I think some 158s also have these.

 

[LowLevel]

The coupling thing was as far as I know an urban myth.

The reverser and drivers key switch is different to standard 158s and the EMT and SWR 158s are also modified but it's nothing major - instead of having of having a key switch and a reverser switch it's all built into one large integral metal device.

They all have 3 service brake steps and emergency.

159/0s have more emergency hopper windows in the saloon.

 

[LowLevel]

159s gained tread brakes on the end bogies at some stage, in an attempt to improve adhesion and track circuit actuation. I think some 158s also have these.

158s were all fitted with scrubber tread brakes following issues with them disappearing off track circuits when introduced. For a while they were paired with 156s until it was resolved.

 

[LOL The Irony]

158s were all fitted with scrubber tread brakes following issues with them disappearing off track circuits when introduced. For a while they were paired with 156s until it was resolved.

Wasn't it also due to leaf mulch build up causing the units to slide?

 

[47271]

And from a passenger point of view?

159s have nice big comfy seats in both First and Standard.

I've never been in a 158 where I haven't felt the operator hasn't been trying to punish me, whether it's for having legs that are too long, wanting to move my arms freely or not wanting to sit bolt upright for three hours. Oh, and in the case of the collapsed seat Haymarket horrors, inflict dull pain on my backside.

I'm sure that 158 aircon is more unreliable, so that's another form of torture.

It's a good question about the seats though. How can it be that 2+2 feels so comfortable on a 159 but so constricted on a 158? My theory is that you sink so well into a 159 base that you forget about the lack of space on either side...

 

[randyrippley]

Presumably NSE would preferably have been allowed to order a Networker Turbo variant custom specified for the line?

I thought it was supposed to have been a DEMU based on the class 210 drivetrain, but proved unaffordable?

 

[Taunton]

I've also been told that the base is staffed by ex-army engineers.

A not unknown approach. Plymouth Laira, throughout the WR diesel hydraulic era, was staffed extensively by ex-Royal Navy engineers living in Plymouth who brought experience of high-speed diesel engines with them from the smaller naval vessels.

 

[D2007wsm]

And from a passenger point of view?

159s have nice big comfy seats in both First and Standard.

I've never been in a 158 where I haven't felt the operator hasn't been trying to punish me, whether it's for having legs that are too long, wanting to move my arms freely or not wanting to sit bolt upright for three hours. Oh, and in the case of the collapsed seat Haymarket horrors, inflict dull pain on my backside.

I'm sure that 158 aircon is more unreliable, so that's another form of torture.

It's a good question about the seats though. How can it be that 2+2 feels so comfortable on a 159 but so constricted on a 158? My theory is that you sink so well into a 159 base that you forget about the lack of space on either side...

Travelling between Bristol Temple Meads and Bath Spa, the oppurtunity is there to get either a GWR 158 or a SWR 159 for the 10/15 minute journey. I have been on both and if it is a GWR 158 with the original seats, there is little difference between that and the 158 and the 159 apart from the toilets, colour scheme and the 159 has First Class. It's different if the GWR 158 has Richmond seats, but I dont have a problem with them.

It's worth mentioning though, the 159/1s at SWR were converted from TPE 158s when the 185s were introduced. Incidentally, where all the GWR 158s with original seats came from, so it was just a refurbishment to make the same basic train different.

The GWR 158s with Richmond seats differ as these are mainly ex Wessex examples and the Richmond's replaced Chapman's and some other weird lower backed seats Wessex refurbished some of them with after completing the 143s, 150/2s and 153s with Chapmans.

 

[whhistle]

That was the original plan - see the Class 161.

Can you point to any documentation on the "Class 161"?
I can't find any

 

[Taunton]

The Western Region ploughed its own furrow for years with hydraulics.

This is a regular comment about the hydraulics, but there was a considerable amount of freedom that the regional chiefs had. The Southern was the only one to choose diesel-electric multiple units, rather than diesel-mechanicals, even though (sort of by definition, really) they operated in areas away from electrification. The Eastern went for the Deltics that nobody else did, a decision championed to a significant extent by Gerry Fiennes.

 

[furnessvale]

This is a regular comment about the hydraulics, but there was a considerable amount of freedom that the regional chiefs had. The Southern was the only one to choose diesel-electric multiple units, rather than diesel-mechanicals, even though (sort of by definition, really) they operated in areas away from electrification. The Eastern went for the Deltics that nobody else did, a decision championed to a significant extent by Gerry Fiennes.

Yes, I was not picking out the Western for criticism, merely quoting an example, of which you have mentioned a few more.

 

[superkev]

I wonder what the real world difference in performance is between the 400hp 159's and the 350hp 158's.
I seem to remember swt doing some tests when they where allocated 350hp 158's rather than more logically 400hp.
K