Class 158 seating

[Halish Railway]

It's the standard Northern seat fabric! At least they have now moved to using moquette- to start with they were using flat fabric which looks tatty within about a month!

My understanding was that the 158s were all being done as they form a common pool, but perhaps there has been a change of plan.

They are also all supposed to be getting USB sockets, but only a handful of them actually have so far.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Aug 2020 ==



What are the four types? Ashbourne, Richmond, Chapman and some which did get ironing boards?

The ex-ScotRail sets have had their seats replaced with ironing boards. So at the moment there’s 4.

 

[fgwrich]

Ah, right. So have all the GWR 153s now got Richmonds then, including the ones whcih had Chapmans?

I guess the 158 seats must have come from Northern though, unless any had been saved from whoever ripped them out last before that (think that would have been EMT, but that was a good few years ago now).

Only the Angel Trains 153s that stayed with the FGW Franchise received the Richmond seats (305/318/368/370/372/373/377/380/382), while 329/361/369 (Porterbrook) retained the Chapman's fitted by their previous operators.

The Richmond's certainly came from Scotland though, I remember seeing some reference to Haymarket in the back of one. They pretty much came out of the 158s in Springburn, were sent for refurbishment, then came straight down to Eastleigh - the "Inverness" refurbishment happening at the same time. As for the ex BR Seats, no idea.

 

[DB]

The ex-ScotRail sets have had their seats replaced with ironing boards. So at the moment there’s 4.

Which ones are going then? Ashbournes being replaced by ironing boards?

 

[northernbelle]

Ah, right. So have all the GWR 153s now got Richmonds then, including the ones whcih had Chapmans?

I guess the 158 seats must have come from Northern though, unless any had been saved from whoever ripped them out last before that (think that would have been EMT, but that was a good few years ago now).

No - the GWR 153s with Richmonds still have them - 153329/361/369 which had Chapmans and are now with TfW have retained them as part of their refurbishment for Wales.

I don't believe the 'old style' seats that were fitted in the GWR 158s were recycled from anywhere - I think they were a new production of the old design.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Aug 2020 ==

That's always the excuse, but softer materials are available - e.g. as used in cars, which generally have far better seats than trains.

They are, but the regulations and standards that have to be met for rail vehicles are quite different to those of road vehicles.

 

[DB]

No - the GWR 153s with Richmonds still have them - 153329/361/369 which had Chapmans and are now with TfW have retained them as part of their refurbishment for Wales.

I've lost track of which ones went where, but I believe GWR don't have any 153s left now. Seem to recall going on an EMT one a couple of years ago that had Richmonds in FGW colours.

They are, but the regulations and standards that have to be met for rail vehicles are quite different to those of road vehicles.

Planes and even some buses seem to manage better - and the railways can do it, e.g. the first-class refurbishment of the GWR HSTs only a few years before withdrawal.

 

[swt_passenger]

SWR 158/159 are still due some sort of tweaks to their seating layouts, including some changes to first/standard ratio, so it will be interesting to see if they obtain second hand original seats, or end up with a mixture?

Class 158 - 112s 13f now
Class 158 - 122s 12f after

Class 159 all - 174s 23f now
Class 159/0 - 186s 24f after
Class 159/1 - 192s 12f after

I don’t know why 159/0 and 159/1 become somewhat different, but that’s how the franchise agreement reads...

 

[DB]

SWR 158/159 are still due some sort of tweaks to their seating layouts, including changes to first/standard ratio, so it will be interesting to see if they obtain second hand original seats, or end up with a mixture?

I'd be very surprised if they use anything different - if there aren't any kept from Northern then they may have new ones made to the same design (as alluded to above regarding GWR). I assume the changs are shrinking first-class so they won't need any additional first-class seats? Those are Chapman, and I believe the design was later acquired by Primarius (and used in a lot of Mk3s and Mk4s). They went bust so not sure who has the deisgn rights now - possibly Transcal?

 

[swt_passenger]

I assume the changs are shrinking first-class so they won't need any additional first-class seats?

I’ve added the seat number changes while you posted. First changes are only significant in 159/1.

 

[DB]

I’ve added the seat number changes while you posted. First changes are only significant in 159/1.

Thanks. I guess the extra standard seats in the others are going to to be by removing tables then.

 

[Halish Railway]

Which ones are going then? Ashbournes being replaced by ironing boards?

Yes

 

[northernbelle]

I've lost track of which ones went where, but I believe GWR don't have any 153s left now. Seem to recall going on an EMT one a couple of years ago that had Richmonds in FGW colours.



Planes and even some buses seem to manage better - and the railways can do it, e.g. the first-class refurbishment of the GWR HSTs only a few years before withdrawal.

I always felt the GWR HST first class seats, while lovely, weren't the softest either. Definitely more comfortable seats out there even if they looked superb.

 

[fgwrich]

I'd be very surprised if they use anything different - if there aren't any kept from Northern then they may have new ones made to the same design (as alluded to above regarding GWR). I assume the changs are shrinking first-class so they won't need any additional first-class seats? Those are Chapman, and I believe the design was later acquired by Primarius (and used in a lot of Mk3s and Mk4s). They went bust so not sure who has the deisgn rights now - possibly Transcal?

The FC design is indeed now with Transcal, who supplied the updated 2015 design to GWR for their FC in the HSTs (and I am currently sat in one!).

The former Great Western 153 fleet was split as follows;

Porterbrook to TFW: 153325/329/333/361/369

Angel to EMR: 153318/368/372/382

Angel to ScotRail via Northern: 153305/370/373/377/380

 

[61653 HTAFC]

So far as I recall the centre cars came out of different units (TPE?), and were inserted into 2-car sets.

Yeah, they were refurbished early in the privatisation era by Northern Spirit (though Arriva may have taken over by the time the fleet was completed). This included first class accommodation, still in 2+2 arrangement but with even more extra padding in the seats than the rest of the unit got. In my opinion this was the best the 158 got, with the 159s under SWT a close second.

When the Northern/TPE split happened and the 185s were introduced, the 158s were distributed far and wide. Besides the centre cars with Northern (which themselves had spells with other operators before returning north), I don't think any examples of this refurbishment remain:- but please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[fgwrich]

When the Northern/TPE split happened and the 185s were introduced, the 158s were distributed far and wide. Besides the centre cars with Northern (which themselves had spells with other operators before returning north), I don't think any examples of this refurbishment remain:- but please correct me if I'm wrong.

You are indeed correct. The centre cars for the 158s actually went across with a batch of ex TPE / Central Trains 158s to East Midlands Trains. EMT then swapped the centre coaches for more 153s from Northern Rail.

 

[Neptune]

You are indeed correct. The centre cars for the 158s actually went across with a batch of ex TPE / Central Trains 158s to East Midlands Trains. EMT then swapped the centre coaches for more 153s from Northern Rail.

Close. EMT received 4 x 156’s (470, 473, 497 & 498) and 2 x 153’s (319 & 357) from Northern although the latter may have been earlier than the 156’s.

Yeah, they were refurbished early in the privatisation era by Northern Spirit (though Arriva may have taken over by the time the fleet was completed). This included first class accommodation, still in 2+2 arrangement but with even more extra padding in the seats than the rest of the unit got. In my opinion this was the best the 158 got, with the 159s under SWT a close second.

When the Northern/TPE split happened and the 185s were introduced, the 158s were distributed far and wide. Besides the centre cars with Northern (which themselves had spells with other operators before returning north), I don't think any examples of this refurbishment remain:- but please correct me if I'm wrong.

The TPE 158 refurbishment happened entirely under Northern Spirit however the 5 oddballs (737, 742, 743 & 744 (ex Scotrail) and 750 (ex XC) didn’t get an internal refurbishment under NS/ATN. They got TPE style seat covers under first as most of them formed parts of hybrid 3 car units. 750 also retained original express livery.

The seat cushions were by far the best on this kind of seat (1st class even got a little rectangle of maquette on the arerest) and was probably one of, if not the best interior refurbishment of any 158 fleet post privatisation (SWT was maybe better as evidenced when we had 158888 on loan at Northern some years back). There were even table lamps and curtains in first class. Scotrail’s Inverness fleet refurbishment is pretty good too.

 

[ScotRail158725]

Hi everyone, I have a quick question regarding seating in class 158s which seems to vary widely in quality from operator to operator.
In my opinion, the most superior is the seating found in the three - coach Northern sets, which I’ve included a picture of below. Does anyone know what this type of seating is called and can it be found in any other classes?
Additionally, I’ve seen a video on YouTube showing a refurbished GWR example, which appears to contain the same types of seats. Are they the same, or just similar?
Most other 158s I’ve travelled on including TfW and EMT have the very high backed, high density types which I find uncomfortable and make the coach interior feel cramped.
Thanks in advance for any thoughts!

how are those Northern seats better than literally any other type of 158 seating? the legroom on the northern ones your praising is intolerable

 

[DB]

how are those Northern seats better than literally any other type of 158 seating? the legroom on the northern ones your praising is intolerable

Legroom is the big issue I have with all 158 original seats, being 6'3 tall! The ironing board 158s are actually better in this regard.

 

[Neptune]

Legroom is the big issue I have with all 158 original seats, being 6'3 tall! The ironing board 158s are actually better in this regard.

Very true. The legroom is very much better as is the higher seating position. I worked a Northern 158 today and found the ironing board fine (comfier than sitting in a cold cab). So long as the base is cushioned well there is no problem. The seat backs need to be firmer to aid good posture and reduce back ache (take it from someone who was suffered a glass back in the past).

 

[simon7929]

It's the standard Northern seat fabric! At least they have now moved to using moquette- to start with they were using flat fabric which looks tatty within about a month!

My understanding was that the 158s were all being done as they form a common pool, but perhaps there has been a change of plan.

They are also all supposed to be getting USB sockets, but only a handful of them actually have so far.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Aug 2020 ==



What are the four types? Ashbourne, Richmond, Chapman and some which did get ironing boards?

The ex ScotRail (5) have Ironing board seats once completed. The Angel sets ex ATN have Richmond. The Porterbrook ones ex FNW have chapman. Two ex ScotRail sets awaiting refurb have Ashbourne.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Legroom is the big issue I have with all 158 original seats, being 6'3 tall! The ironing board 158s are actually better in this regard.

Yes, I'm actually a big fan of the ironing board interior - on the same fully aligned layout the legroom is excellent rather than poor because the seats are about 3" thinner-backed and more upright.

 

[Anonymous10]

Hi everyone, I have a quick question regarding seating in class 158s which seems to vary widely in quality from operator to operator.
In my opinion, the most superior is the seating found in the three - coach Northern sets, which I’ve included a picture of below. Does anyone know what this type of seating is called and can it be found in any other classes?
Additionally, I’ve seen a video on YouTube showing a refurbished GWR example, which appears to contain the same types of seats. Are they the same, or just similar?
Most other 158s I’ve travelled on including TfW and EMT have the very high backed, high density types which I find uncomfortable and make the coach interior feel cramped.
Thanks in advance for any thoughts!

Personally the tfw ones are the best also easily the best rolling stock in Wales

 

[tramfan208]

how are those Northern seats better than literally any other type of 158 seating? the legroom on the northern ones your praising is intolerable

I think I find the seat height just about perfect, they’re all well aligned to windows and the upholstery is substantial. It’s clear everyone has radically different views on this topic

 

[43096]

Not seen any of those - looks like they are keeping them then!

Wonder what the logic is? Doesn't seem much logic in having a small sub-fleet which is different to the main fleet.

The 3-car sets are the only Porterbrook 158s in the Northern fleet; the rest are Angel and Eversholt (158901-910). Perhaps Ian Walmsley’s “ghost” is still present in the Porterbrook office?!