Class 150 units

[I like Class 153]

When London Midland and London Overground get their new Class 172 units and then the Class 150 units get sent to other Train Companies what train companies will have the Class 150 units apart from First Great Western and Northern Rail?.

I heard that some of them will go to First Great Western and the remaining units will be passed onto Northern Rail.

I hope East Midlands Trains will get them. I like those units.

 

[MCR247]

Am I losing it or was there another thread about wheter EMT will get 150s a while back?

 

[kyrano]

When London Midland and London Overground get their new Class 172 units and then the Class 150 units get sent to other Train Companies what train companies will have the Class 150 units apart from First Great Western and Northern Rail?.

I heard that some of them will go to First Great Western and the remaining units will be passed onto Northern Rail.

I hope East Midlands Trains will get them. I like those units.

First Great Western and Northern Rail to get them .

 

[WillPS]

Although with a bit of luck EMT will benefit from a cascade, 156s from Northern seems a common mumble.

 

[royaloak]

So whats the advantage for Northern if they gain 150s but lose 156s.
How many 156s do Northern have?

 

[driver9000]

So whats the advantage for Northern if they gain 150s but lose 156s.
How many 156s do Northern have?

I think they have 43 class 156 units. Current rumour is that 6 are off to EMT.

The benefit would be a better ability to strengthen services and an outside chance of storing (again) some Pacers.

 

[WillPS]

They'd definitely get more 150s than they'd loose 156s, I think.

 

[royaloak]

They'd definitely get more 150s than they'd loose 156s, .

I think

You have just answered your own question!

 

[WillPS]

You have just answered your own question!

I didn't ask a question?

 

[royaloak]

you said-
they will DEFINITELY get more 150s

followed by-
I think.

Now common sense says they will BUT you never know!

 

[WillPS]

Where's the question in that? I was saying that if it did happen, Northern would receive more than 6 150s, so they'd still end up with more overall - no question, just speculation...

 

[I like Class 153]

So EMT could get some more Class 156 units from Northern Rail instead of getting the Class 150 units?.

 

[royaloak]

Where's the question in that? I was saying that if it did happen, Northern would receive more than 6 150s, so they'd still end up with more overall - no question, just speculation...

You made a statement, then finished with a question.
You do not know how many units Northern are getting but THINK it will be more than 6.
If they got 6 150s and lost 6 156s the DaFT would say they have received 6 more trains and East Midlands have got 6 more, making it sound like it is a gain of 12 overall when it is only a gain for EM.
The same thing happened with the 158s, the Great Western area lost most of theirs and took a load from Northern, Great Western ended up with less units overall but the DaFT made it sound like they had gained about 20 coaches.
Never use common sense or assumptions when dealing with the government or the DaFT.

 

[DjU]

So EMT could get some more Class 156 units from Northern Rail instead of getting the Class 150 units?.

The original rumour/plan seemed to be that EMT wanted some (6) of the unallocated Class 150 due for cascade.

I believe the main reason for this was to put the units on the local services along with the Class 153 and Class 156 they already have. This would remove the need for any Class 158 on the Local routes, thus freeing them up to bolster the overcrowded Liverpool - Norwich trains.

The story changed, and it now seems to be they will try and get Class 156s from Northern. Northern would then get extra Class 150s (on top of what they were already getting) to fill the gap

The overall outcome would be the same.

 

[GNERman]

has emt not looked at loco hauled or new stock for the liverpool - norwich?

i remember that quite a while ago an nr 31 with dbso was tested on derby - crewe for possible use bu this never went through, if it had then the 158 stock used on it could have gone for liverpool - norwich.

also, aren't the cascaded units for northern to enable the 180's to be given back?

 

[DjU]

has emt not looked at loco hauled or new stock for the liverpool - norwich?

i remember that quite a while ago an nr 31 with dbso was tested on derby - crewe for possible use bu this never went through, if it had then the 158 stock used on it could have gone for liverpool - norwich.

also, aren't the cascaded units for northern to enable the 180's to be given back?

The Class 180 at Northern should be displaced by the returning Class 158s that ScotRail are leasing from Northern. End of 2010

 

[WillPS]

has emt not looked at loco hauled or new stock for the liverpool - norwich?

Weight-related speed restrictions twixt Ely and Thetford would cripple the journey times. 222s would make it up elsewhere thanks to their brilliant acceleration, loco-hauled would struggle.

Even then, it's not like there are many Mk. 3 coaches lying about begging for use.

i remember that quite a while ago an nr 31 with dbso was tested on derby - crewe for possible use bu this never went through, if it had then the 158 stock used on it could have gone for liverpool - norwich.

They made speculative enquiries regarding the use of, I think, a 47 + Mk. 2 + DBSO rake. There was only 1 available, and seeing as the line is now run by single dogboxes, it would only free up one single unit. Needless to say, the costs outweighed the benefits.

also, aren't the cascaded units for northern to enable the 180's to be given back?

They're not going back to their ROSCO, they're going back to East Coast, from whom they presently sublease the units. Whether East Coast end up using them depends on whether they can possibly swap them for something better, at least that's the jist of what I've read.

 

[DjU]

They're not going back to their ROSCO, they're going back to East Coast, from whom they presently sublease the units. Whether East Coast end up using them depends on whether they can possibly swap them for something better, at least that's the jist of what I've read.

Yes I believe the incoming team at DOR did attempt to see if the could get the 3 short HST sets off of Grand Central in exchange for the rest of the 180s. Leaving the 180 in the sole hands of the Open-Access operators, but as you can imagine Grand Central were having none of it!

 

[I like Class 153]

It would be good for East Midlands Trains could have the Class 150 units.

 

[Helvellyn]

It would be good for East Midlands Trains could have the Class 150 units.

Tim Shoveller, EMT MD, has stated that it's not a given all units will go to FGW and Northern. From a rostering/maintenance perspective it would be better if EMT could arrange to take six 156 units from Northern, rather than introduce another fleet type.

Depends on what involvement the DfT has though - I mentioned in another thread how FCC have to operate both the 317/1 and 321/4, whereas if they could have come to an agreement with NXEA they would have benefitted from operating just one or the other.

I thought FGW was getting the remaining LOROL 150/1 units? Or is it also in line to get some ex-LM units too?

 

[fgwrich]

I thought FGW was getting the remaining LOROL 150/1 units? Or is it also in line to get some ex-LM units too?

FGW is, acording to the current plan, to receive enough 150s from LM and all the remaining LOROL 150s to return the ATW 150s back to ATW, LHCS hauled sets x2 and the remaining 142s back to northern, although FGW are trying to deal with these to keep them for abit longer...

Just a pity that we cant go back to 2006 and have our Dogbox's and 158s back...:roll:

 

[2030720310]

you said-
they will DEFINITELY get more 150s

followed by-
I think.

Now common sense says they will BUT you never know!

Then thats not a question but a statement!!!

 

[I like Class 153]

Oh, I was really hoping that East Midlands Trains would get the Class 150 units, I kept my fingers crossed and I'm dissapointed now as my wish didn't come true:cry:.

I think the Class 156's are quite boring to me. I was hoping that there will be Class 150 units on the Robin Hood Line and Nottingham to Matlock services.

If EMT do get the Class 156 units from Northern Rail let hope it will be an ex-FNW ones.

 

[323235]

If EMT do get the Class 156 units from Northern Rail let hope it will be an ex-FNW ones.

Yeh the Ex-Fnw's are absolute dogs
All thrash and no action

 

[DjU]

FGW is, acording to the current plan, to receive enough 150s from LM and all the remaining LOROL 150s to return the ATW 150s back to ATW, LHCS hauled sets x2 and the remaining 142s back to northern, although FGW are trying to deal with these to keep them for abit longer...

Just a pity that we cant go back to 2006 and have our Dogbox's and 158s back...:roll:

I believe it has changed slightly recently the current plan is that FGW will receive NONE of the LOROL 150/1s - all the 150/1s they get will be ex L

They are down for 30 carriages (15 units).

The LOROL ones could go to EMT

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=5546.msg55453#msg55453

 

[350401]

As a Northerner I really hope EMT don't get 6 of Northerns 156's - we are short enough on rolling stock as it is! The 156's are the only decent unit in the North-West - without starting an East/West Debate, all of Northern's decent units seem to be kept in the East Side of the Franchise - they have 158s, 155s and 143s, whereas we have 156s, 150s and 142s. To loose 6 156's in exchange for 6 150's would be a sad day. However, if EMT want to take 6 of the 158's - well I've no objections

 

[Lampshade]

Well we have 180s in the North West (for now anyway). You're not wrong there though, Neville Hill has most of the decent stock, they have the 333s as well. They can't take my beloved 156468, or even 464

Northern's 150/2s are actually quite good with really comfy seats. The ex-FNW 150s are diabolical though and the very reason I avoid Northern and travel with TPE when I can.

 

[350401]

True, we do have the 180's - though, going slightly off-topic, they seem to be used on inappropriate diagrams as far as I'm aware - e.g working Blackpool-Hazel Grove in the Morning peak - that's the wrong way round surely?! A couple of times I've been in a rammed peak 142 and I've seen a nearly empty 180 stopped at Levenshulme on the way to Hazel Grove. There are issues of clearance/signing I know, but does seem a bit wierd.

Regarding the 150/2s - the ex-ATN ones that have been refurbished are lovely, agreed. However, the 150/2s refurbed by FNW are in the same dire state as the 150/1s, and suffer from the same odd seating arrangement in the toilet area/front cab area. I actually prefer the 323's to the 333's - more seats arranged in bays and more leg room in the airline seats. Though the extra coach at rush-hour would be welcome. I can't wait for 323231 to be back in service - the Crewe line should, I think?, go back to 323 only operation - no more pacers on the 07.22 ex-Crewe or the 20.04 ex-Picc!!

 

[driver9000]

by the time the 180 reaches Levenshulme it has already dropped off a full load at Oxford Rd and Piccadilly stations. Similarly the Victoria 180 also carries a full load in the peaks, their diagrams are appropriate to their length and capacity. God knows how those trips will cope when the 150s or 158s take over

 

[I like Class 153]

I don't think Northern shouldn't loose 6 Class 156 units for EMT.

I think that EMT should have the Class 150 units from London Overground and London Midland instead.

Lat's hope this happens.