Class 150 on S&C

[John C]

ex GWR class 150101 has just departed Leeds on the 1M53 09:47 to Carlisle in place of the more usual 158.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/railphotosonline/26885085027/in/dateposted/

 

[47802]

ex GWR class 150101 has just departed Leeds on the 1M53 09:47 to Carlisle in place of the more usual 158.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/railphotosonline/26885085027/in/dateposted/

Well at least it wasn't a Railbus!, which I have had up to Carlisle on more than one occasion admittedly quite a while ago, early January morning freezing cold and original Bus Seats.

 

[Harpers Tate]

At least you can see out of a Railbus.

 

[centraltrains]

At least you can see out of a Railbus.

You can see out of sprinters!

 

[northwichcat]

At least you can see out of a Railbus.

Not when all seats are occupied and the aisles are packed with standing passengers.

 

[gnolife]

Not when all seats are occupied and the aisles are packed with standing passengers.

Surely the same applies to a packed sprinter too?

 

[northwichcat]

Surely the same applies to a packed sprinter too?

A Sprinter has more seats and longer carriages so the chance of all seats being occupied is higher on a Pacer (except if it's a single 153 but then those are very rare - Northern only have 18 x 153s and quite a few are diagrammed to run in multiple with something else.)

 

[Harpers Tate]

OK
At least you can see out of a railbus while seated.

 

[LiftFan]

Rather odd to see something in FGW colours that far up north...

 

[Iskra]

Rather odd to see something in FGW colours that far up north...

Yes, Leeds especially has become very interesting recently with ex-FGW, Ex-Scotrail, Old Northern, New Northern, Grand Central, class 333 Northern and Class 321/2 Northern liveried units all working Northern services as well as the other operators, some of which are/have borrowed other operators trains recently.

 

[47802]

Its also another reason why Northern and TPE shouldn't be ever merged despite that as a suggestion by at least 1 frequent poster on here.

 

[northwichcat]

Its also another reason why Northern and TPE shouldn't be ever merged despite that as a suggestion by at least 1 frequent poster on here.

Once the new TPE stock is introduced it'd be harder for the TPE stock to appear on the wrong routes even if the franchises are merged. The mk5s and 802s probably won't even be able to run to Cleethorpes due to crew knowledge and route clearance issues, never mind an 802 running a Northern stopper while a 150 runs a Manchester Airport to Newcastle service.

 

[transmanche]

Once the new TPE stock is introduced it'd be harder for the TPE stock to appear on the wrong routes even if the franchises are merged.

How often non-TPE stock appear on TPE services when TPE was part of RRNE/Northern Spirit/Arriva Trains Northern?

I don't remember it happening on any TPE journey I took, but I may have just been lucky.

 

[47802]

Once the new TPE stock is introduced it'd be harder for the TPE stock to appear on the wrong routes even if the franchises are merged. The mk5s and 802s probably won't even be able to run to Cleethorpes due to crew knowledge and route clearance issues, never mind an 802 running a Northern stopper while a 150 runs a Manchester Airport to Newcastle service.

Possibly but would be getting IC class trains on TPE if they had remained part of Northern I seriously doubt it, and I come from the era of BR subbing a Railbus on TPE Hull workings quite frequently.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

How often non-TPE stock appear on TPE services when TPE was part of RRNE/Northern Spirit/Arriva Trains Northern?

I don't remember it happening on any TPE journey I took, but I may have just been lucky.

When Manchester-Leeds-Hull services were introduced there weren't enough 158s available so it was run using 156s almost exclusively. And substitutions did occur on RRNE/NS/ATN-TPE though the West Yorkshire Metro branded 155s seemed to be the preferred stand-ins. Of course the very first replacements for loco-hauled stock were 150/2s, often in 6-car formation.

 

[northwichcat]

When Manchester-Leeds-Hull services were introduced there weren't enough 158s available so it was run using 156s almost exclusively. And substitutions did occur on RRNE/NS/ATN-TPE though the West Yorkshire Metro branded 155s seemed to be the preferred stand-ins. Of course the very first replacements for loco-hauled stock were 150/2s, often in 6-car formation.

Yes both 156s and MetroTrain 158s appeared on TPE services regularly. I'm pretty sure Manchester-Hull and Blackpool-Yorkshire services were advertised as only having standard class accommodation under ATN, despite both being classed as TPE routes. When the separate TPE franchise started (which didn't include the Blackpool to Yorkshire services) they had to sublease some additional 158s, first from FNW and then from CT to ensure there were enough units.

 

[northwichcat]

Possibly but would be getting IC class trains on TPE if they had remained part of Northern I seriously doubt it, and I come from the era of BR subbing a Railbus on TPE Hull workings quite frequently.

It would have depended on who won any combined franchise. Apparently Stagecoach proposed using loco-hauled 442s on North TPE in their TPE bid and didn't propose using 442s in their South West bid, while First had different ideas for where the 442s should be used. Anyway even with 185s what routes they can be used on are more restricted than with Pacers and Sprinters.

 

[47802]

It would have depended on who won any combined franchise. Apparently Stagecoach proposed using loco-hauled 442s on North TPE in their TPE bid and didn't propose using 442s in their South West bid, while First had different ideas for where the 442s should be used. Anyway even with 185s what routes they can be used on are more restricted than with Pacers and Sprinters.

I'm not sure that's particularly relevant, and integrated franchise would have been a completely different ball game, indeed splitting it the first place probably helped with the upgrade to 185's. Just as well Stagecoach didn't win if they were offering clapped out 442's.

Anyway back to the thread I remember the days when the kind of substitution that might have actually been interesting would be a 40 subbing for 47 on the S&C, now its a ex GWR 150 subbing for 158 Hmm.

 

[transmanche]

When Manchester-Leeds-Hull services were introduced there weren't enough 158s available so it was run using 156s almost exclusively. And substitutions did occur on RRNE/NS/ATN-TPE though the West Yorkshire Metro branded 155s seemed to be the preferred stand-ins. Of course the very first replacements for loco-hauled stock were 150/2s, often in 6-car formation.

Ah right. I only used the Newcastle services back in the day - and I only ever saw 158s.

 

[northwichcat]

I'm not sure that's particularly relevant, and integrated franchise would have been a completely different ball game, indeed splitting it the first place probably helped with the upgrade to 185's.

I'm not sure if it did. First North Western got new 175s for the Regional Railways North West routes (which included North Wales), which could be argued are more Intercity like than the 185s. It's possible a new combined franchise could have got new trains for the express routes and been able to retain the released 158s to cascade down and indirectly replace Pacers - we just don't know.

 

[Fisherman80]

New member here!
During the mid 90s in the days of a 156/Pacer combo I used to sit in the Pacer as usually the last train from Carlisle to Leeds. This was mainly due to the 156 having reservation labels throughout and so left me no choice but to sit on the Pacer which I didn't mind as the views were better. For some reason I always preferred a 144 over a 142.......happy days!

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

New member here!
During the mid 90s in the days of a 156/Pacer combo I used to sit in the Pacer as usually the last train from Carlisle to Leeds. This was mainly due to the 156 having reservation labels throughout and so left me no choice but to sit on the Pacer which I didn't mind as the views were better. For some reason I always preferred a 144 over a 142.......happy days!

That's hardly surprising. The 143s and 144s were much better built than the 142s meaning fewer rattles and draughts. And that's before they were fitted with better seating.

 

[Fisherman80]

The 144s still had bench seating when I went over the Settle to Carlisle in the 90s. Occasionally when it was a 156 plus a 3 car 144 I had a carriage all to myself!

 

[bramling]

That's hardly surprising. The 143s and 144s were much better built than the 142s meaning fewer rattles and draughts. And that's before they were fitted with better seating.

Better seating is a matter for debate. The legroom on some seats on Northern 144s is very poor. Personally I have no issue with the original bus seats on the 142s, apart from the fact that they're a little cramped if all seats are occupied.

 

[northwichcat]

Better seating is a matter for debate. The legroom on some seats on Northern 144s is very poor. Personally I have no issue with the original bus seats on the 142s, apart from the fact that they're a little cramped if all seats are occupied.

The 142s with bus bench seating have seats which feel like they are about to collapse and some 142s have had seats removed due to them already having collapsed.

 

[Fisherman80]

I've always thought the 144s were better built than the 142s IMO. When the 144s did have bench seats I thought you had a better view than the 142s.

 

[PHILIPE]

I don't know what this has got to do with the appearance of a 150 over the S & C

 

[DarloRich]

Not when all seats are occupied and the aisles are packed with standing passengers.

I don't get your point. That surely is true for all rail vehicles

 

[bramling]

The 142s with bus bench seating have seats which feel like they are about to collapse and some 142s have had seats removed due to them already having collapsed.

Naturally this is subjective, however my experience of the 142s (which to be fair is probably less extensive than yours) is not that bad. As I say, I find the bus seats reasonably comfortable - even for long journeys like Barrow to Carlisle. I'd take them over an ironing board any day.

 

[Fisherman80]

I don't know what this has got to do with the appearance of a 150 over the S & C

I started reading the post and it looked interesting so I put my thoughts across...I may not have mentioned a 150 but it is regarding traction on the Settle to Carlisle.