Class 150/2 question.

[m79900]

This might sound like a silly question, but are the sliding doors at the front of the units available for use by passengers?

 

[hexagon789]

This might sound like a silly question, but are the sliding doors at the front of the units available for use by passengers?

No, they are the cab doors.

 

[Snow1964]

Not a silly question as the class 313, 314, 315, 507, 508 were designed to allow passengers in part of driving compartment when coupled, and cab wasn't needed by staff. Although they took away the door buttons some years later. They were in use by passengers in mid 1980s when class 150s were designed

Of course the whole point of gangways on 150/2 was so they could operate in multiple, by ideas change over time.

 

[WestAnglian]

Not a silly question as the class 313, 314, 315, 507, 508 were designed to allow passengers in part of driving compartment when coupled, and cab wasn't needed by staff. Although they took away the door buttons some years later. They were in use by passengers in mid 1980s when class 150s were designed

Of course the whole point of gangways on 150/2 was so they could operate in multiple, by ideas change over time.

Indeed, the same applied to class 317. It was useful extra capacity on busy trains and some commuters would use it every day. But its use was discouraged at some point. I remember running for a Stansted Exptess at Liverpool Street and using the first door, just behing the trailing cab. I was told off by the onboard hostess for 'using the driver's door'.

 

[Pit_buzzer]

Not a silly question as the class 313, 314, 315, 507, 508 were designed to allow passengers in part of driving compartment when coupled, and cab wasn't needed by staff. Although they took away the door buttons some years later. They were in use by passengers in mid 1980s when class 150s were designed

Of course the whole point of gangways on 150/2 was so they could operate in multiple, by ideas change over time.

No, they are the cab doors.

They're used as passenger doors on northerns 150/2s. Used one to alight at Sheffield just a couple of weeks ago.
And the doors are painted a contrasting colour as opposed to the background body colour of the crew only doors on the 150/1s

 

[skyhigh]

They're used as passenger doors on northerns 150/2s. Used one to alight at Sheffield just a couple of weeks ago.

Yes and no. When a driving key is in that cab the doors immediately adjacent don't work on the passenger controls. Otherwise they are in passenger use.

 

[Anonymous10]

They're used as passenger doors on northerns 150/2s. Used one to alight at Sheffield just a couple of weeks ago.
And the doors are painted a contrasting colour as opposed to the background body colour of the crew only doors on the 150/1s

Where on tfw they are staff only unless in multiple I believe.

 

[Towers]

Is it possible that some are set up to allow opening from inside but not outside when a driver is keyed in to the adjacent cab, to allow egress from within the leading vestibule? Passengers have access to this area unless the saloon door is manually locked with a BR1 key, which in my experience isn’t common practice, so that would be entirely feasible. This of course would result in passengers then being able to board through those doors once somebody had opened them from the inside in order to alight.

 

[jamiearmley]

Is it possible that some are set up to allow opening from inside but not outside when a driver is keyed in to the adjacent cab, to allow egress from within the leading vestibule? Passengers have access to this area unless the saloon door is manually locked with a BR1 key, which in my experience isn’t common practice, so that would be entirely feasible. This of course would result in passengers then being able to board through those doors once somebody had opened them from the inside in order to alight.

On the Northern ones the doors adjacent to the cab with the energised desk do not function from either inside or outside, they are completely disabled 'when the key is in'.
They can be operated by the guard, however, once the DKS is energised at that position.

 

[L401CJF]

On TFWs ones the buttons are inactive if the driver is keyed in on that desk. If working in multiple and its in the middle of the train for example, passengers are welcome to use them.

On a plus side as it doesn't lead directly into the cab, if we have closed all the doors and a late runner appears we are are allowed to let them in through the vestibule/guards door on a 150.

 

[Towers]

On TFWs ones the buttons are inactive if the driver is keyed in on that desk. If working in multiple and its in the middle of the train for example, passengers are welcome to use them.

On a plus side as it doesn't lead directly into the cab, if we have closed all the doors and a late runner appears we are are allowed to let them in through the vestibule/guards door on a 150.

Do Northern’s examples have saloon door control panels? Or only the original controls in each vestibule?

 

[scrapy]

Do Northern’s examples have saloon door control panels? Or only the original controls in each vestibule?

Northerns have come from different operators over the years so they have variations but where these control panels exist they cannot be used for standardisation.

 

[Towers]

Northerns have come from different operators over the years so they have variations but where these control panels exist they cannot be used for standardisation.

Sounds a rather poor excuse given the variety of stock on offer. Train guards to use them, and use them when they’re there!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

There's a double set on one of the last trains from Cardiff to Pontypridd (very rare, as almost everything is a single these days) and quite a few times the guard hasn't bothered to lock out the middle cabs. The guard seat in the front of the rear unit was open and available as an extra seat the other day, which made a change from being wedged in a Chapman.

 

[Towers]

There's a double set on one of the last trains from Cardiff to Pontypridd (very rare, as almost everything is a single these days) and quite a few times the guard hasn't bothered to lock out the middle cabs. The guard seat in the front of the rear unit was open and available as an extra seat the other day, which made a change from being wedged in a Chapman.

Ooops! That’s one way of potentially having a rather complex door open in traffic incident!

 

[jamiearmley]

Ooops! That’s one way of potentially having a rather complex door open in traffic incident!

Leaving either part - drivers or secondmans - of a 'buried cab' on a double set open to the public will, on my Toc, (if reported / management find out) result in you being stood down and investigated. This is especially true of our 150x, where the internal crew door butterfly is not protected, and can be accidentally activated with a careless foot, or item such as a bag, etc.

As such, myself, I would refrain from posting anything on a public forum where the detail may be enough to identify the route/time/crew involved.

 

[trainJam]

So officially, is the vestibule area public, or staff only? A grey area? Or does it change depending on whether there is a driver in the cab next to it?

If it is staff only, then it should not be physically possible to access the area as a passenger. There shouldn't be new, large, accessible passenger buttons or contrasting colours if it is not for public use imo. If it is, and there aren't any notices, then it isn't the passenger's fault for using it.

What about the doors at the very rear of the train?

I've used the middle on a 150 + 153 - the door alarm began to play at the same time as the door closed, like the DLR. It was busy, so I stood in there - it is also a good place to see through into the cab.
It was busy, but passengers did not use the area or the door - even when boarding at intermediate stations. That was, until I opened the door to have a look out, which was when people realised they could squash in.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

If it's at the front of the formation, it's considered a staff area (occasionally passengers may be allowed to board there as described upthread). If it's in the middle or at the rear of the formation, it's accessible to the public. As I understand it the single doors near the 'buried' cab on Northern's hybrid 3-car sets are always available, though I have not tested this.

 

[Ashley Hill]

So officially, is the vestibule area public, or staff only? A grey area? Or does it change depending on whether there is a driver in the cab next to it?

The vestibule doors behind the driving cab used to be lockable. Many drivers locked it to prevent passengers entering the area due to distraction and the fact they could not exit if the driver was keyed in. They are no longer lockable as it is considered an emergency exit but passengers are not allowed in there.
Likewise you won’t see many guards allowing passengers in the vestibule at the rear.

 

[L401CJF]

So officially, is the vestibule area public, or staff only? A grey area? Or does it change depending on whether there is a driver in the cab next to it?

If it is staff only, then it should not be physically possible to access the area as a passenger. There shouldn't be new, large, accessible passenger buttons or contrasting colours if it is not for public use imo. If it is, and there aren't any notices, then it isn't the passenger's fault for using it.

What about the doors at the very rear of the train?

I've used the middle on a 150 + 153 - the door alarm began to play at the same time as the door closed, like the DLR. It was busy, so I stood in there - it is also a good place to see through into the cab.
It was busy, but passengers did not use the area or the door - even when boarding at intermediate stations. That was, until I opened the door to have a look out, which was when people realised they could squash in.

Officially during the guards course (TFW) we were told the 150 is the only unit where passengers are permitted to board through the "cab" door as its not in the cab. They've got the PRM door buttons and hussle alarms etc and can be used for passenger access but as said above you can't get in from outside if the driver is keyed in at that cab. Unsure about getting out ive never tried!

I've worked a few busy units lately in multiple that have had passengers standing in the middle vestibule on 150s and used the vestibule doors to get in and out. Must be pretty common down the Marches during the 150 invasion I'd imagine?

As said above there's a few guards that won't allow passengers to board through their rear vestibule door but I allow it if required. Quite handy on Bidstons (where there's no time to breath) as if there's a group of kids running up behind the train you can close the main doors and point them into the vestibule door, then you're just ready to go and save some precious seconds!

I personally have alighted via a middle Northern 150/2 vestibule door in multiple many years ago, but very rare I use northern these days so unsure if its still a thing.

Regarding posts above about passengers travelling in intermediate cabs, its not allowed, however a few guards have said years ago it was common practice on busy 2 cars to allow passengers to sit in the 2nd man's side rear cab. No longer permitted of course!

 

[LowLevel]

It's always been a public area in the middle of the train. Back when Central had their hybrid 150s for many years the 150/2 donor car in the middle had the crew door working like any other passenger door.

I don't think anyone would think to use the rear door with the guard stood in it and it's too cramped to be filling it up with people otherwise.

Back when we had single 153s running around on busy routes it was common to shut the cab door at the back across the driving controls and fill the secondman's side with passengers or luggage, the guard would just stand by the door panel and people were less bothered by announcements then. 153s don't have a crew door valve in the cab though.