Manchester77
Established Member
6 319s are due to be released from Thameslink in May 2014, that seems soon to me 
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YorkshireBear
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6 are being released in may 2014. 5 and a half months is soon in railway planning terms!
Eagle
Established Member
In fact some have argued that without Pacers we wouldn't have any Mid Cheshire line... saviour of many a local branch in the north and the Westcountry.
Not true, FCC are sending six 319s off in May, as requested by the DfT.
would agree with that, they will probably run until they can run no more.
i suppose with the electrification schemes people believe rightly or wrongly (i suspect wrongly) their will be enough DMUS to replace the pacers on diesel routes
Eagle
Established Member
Electrification (for now) won't remove Pacers and Sprinters, it'll just allow them to double up where capacity is needed.
i wonder when 2019 actually comes could an exemption be given for these units if theirs still capacity problems around the network?
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Manchester77
Established Member
I'd imagine so if all the trains aren't compliment you can't just remove a fleet like that surely...
Eagle
Established Member
Yes, they would definitely be reprieved. Because the alternative would be replacing a bunch of services permanently with buses being as there aren't enough trains to run them.
Silv1983
Member
6 319s are due to be released from Thameslink in May 2014, that seems soon to me
'Released' and 'In service up North' are far apart
Did he see it AT Buxton?
I have seen a 4VEP leave Waterloo on a service to Exeter (can you spot the problem?), it worked to Basingstoke where the passengers changed trains onto a 159.
Just because a train starts a service to somewhere doesnt mean it worked the full route!
I wasnt sure, hence my may in the post!
RichmondCommu
Established Member
Hopefully a class 142 will find its way into the National Collection when the cull finally starts.
Eagle
Established Member
As a warning to future generations, so they don't repeat the mistakes of history.
Indeed yes.
I've travelled on them many times and I've had some very cold and uncomfortable journeys on 142's on the last Hope Valley stopper but I'll still miss them when they're gone!
YorkshireBear
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As a warning to future generations, so they don't repeat the mistakes of history.
Yes!
In all seriousness i hope one does, like i said they have provided a backbone to regional services across the North of England, Wales and the South West for a significant period of time.
RichmondCommu
Established Member
As a warning to future generations, so they don't repeat the mistakes of history.
Yes! But also because they saved a lot of lines from having to close and that is something that we should all be grateful for.
i wouldn't think so, i certainly believe an exemption will be the outcome for these units
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Why should the type of person for whom these rolling stock improvements was intended be suddenly expected to be themselves be exempted from the very things proposed to help them in rail travel ?
I think that the very reason why these improvements were laid down in one Act that is now part of another Act is gradually being forgotten. Shall we see a thread appearing to support the retention of step-access buses next..
What is the longest journey for which a Pacer is diagrammed these days?
I remember doing Chester - Llandudno Junction years back (on a train which had started at Manchester and was going to at least Bangor). It was uncomfortable, verging on frightening as we hammered along at 70ish.
Boy, was I glad to get off and catch my connection to Llandudno.
Which was another Pacer!
I remember doing Chester - Llandudno Junction years back (on a train which had started at Manchester and was going to at least Bangor). It was uncomfortable, verging on frightening as we hammered along at 70ish.
Boy, was I glad to get off and catch my connection to Llandudno.
Which was another Pacer!
Eagle
Established Member
Cumbrian coast seems like a likely candidate.
hairyhandedfool
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They've been on the Cumbrian, but I'm not sure they are specifically diagrammed that way, I personally have only ever seen 153s and 156s round there. If they are not, I think Sheffield-Cleethorpes might be a contender (2h11m).
in an ideal world, BR would have got whatever money it needed to run the railway and build more good carriges, and never have been put into a situation where the likes of the pacer had to be built, however we sadly don't live in an ideal world and BR ended up having to build such trains otherwise possibly face more closures which would be far worse IMO.
the only way the pacers could be withdrawn is if enough electrification happens to cut the amount of diesel routes sufficiently that the rest of the DMUS could cover the non-electrified services and allow some expansion where justified (going to take a long time) or else allow the pacer withdrawel and buy new DMUS to replace them (probably isn't going to happen because of electrification meaning the rest of the DMU fleet can be cascaded) so capacity has to be taken wherever it can be got which means pacers.
chorleyjeff
Member
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Did Lancaster to Carlisle on a 142 when the direct line was blocked.
Serious bum ache towards the end.
Jeff
ChiefPlanner
Established Member
Cumbrian Coast has been bogie stock for a good while - I guess Morecombe - Lancaster - Skipton etc might be a contender for longest route , along with Carlisle - Newcastle and extensions to the coast.
samuelmorris
Established Member
Clearly not finished if it's going to be used for at least another 6 years, assuming these proposals for the 143/144s don't also get put into action on the 142s in a similar fashion:
http://www.porterbrook.co.uk/downloads/brochures/14x Brochure.pdf
Also, you seem to be under the impression a 350 can be used in place of a 142 with no repercussions. I'm not entirely sure that's true
http://www.porterbrook.co.uk/downloads/brochures/14x Brochure.pdf
Also, you seem to be under the impression a 350 can be used in place of a 142 with no repercussions. I'm not entirely sure that's true
nathanclass323
Member
You obviously don't get how this works. For starters, the 350s belong to a leasing company (don't remember which) and will be subleased through London Midland. FTPE had nothing to do with the actual sale of these units. Also, Northern and First TransPennine Express are completely different to each other and operate different styles of service to one another. FTPE operate a large EXPRESS* network as their name suggests and so they need newer! faster stock whereas Northern operate commuter services around the North and the North Midlands meaning their more elderly stock is suitable if maybe cramped.
Though since you seem to be under the impression that Northern can afford to buy ten class 350s, I am fairly certain FTPE's and Northern's profit margins are very different. Remember that many of Northern's routes are heavily subsidised as well.
I am interested to know why you have decided to take a hit at Northern Rail as they don't have a vast amount of control over what stock they get.
*I'm aware that express may not be the right term for a few of their services
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I could take a hit at Arriva if you want, it doesnt matter how much money you spend on 150s, 153s and 158s, there horrible trains. I only like their 175, I dont mind modern diesels. Ive never had a 30 year old car, so why would a train be the same.
Manchester77
Established Member
TOCs don't buy rolling stock, ROSCOs do who in turn lease the trains to TOCs like norther. If northern were to invest in a fleet of new DMUs fares would skyrocket. For more information about ROSCOs - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transport_in_Great_Britain#Leasing_services
Clearly not finished if it's going to be used for at least another 6 years, assuming these proposals for the 143/144s don't also get put into action on the 142s in a similar fashion:
http://www.porterbrook.co.uk/downloads/brochures/14x Brochure.pdf
Also, you seem to be under the impression a 350 can be used in place of a 142 with no repercussions. I'm not entirely sure that's true
Doubt it, those are for porterbrooks pacers, the 142s are owned by angel and they haven't said anything about whether they'll be overhauled.
samuelmorris
Established Member
Of the routes Pacers (or Sprinters for that matter) typically work, how many are actually going to be electrified in the next 15 years? No matter what's done with them, they will eventually have to be replaced with something - easy to say not living where they're used but I'd be half tempted to say keep hold of them until they can be replaced with EMUs, assuming electrification is being implemented, but given the number of routes involved I don't imagine that's going to be 'soon', even in railway terms.
Manchester77
Established Member
How are ATWs 158s horrible?1 And you're last bit, a cars design life is what, 10? A DMUs is 30-40 years :roll:
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