Class 142 refurbishment?

[northwichcat]

According to 'Andy' on the @northernrailorg Twitter feed Northern are to refurbish all the class 142s.

Is that any refurbishment over the refresh that the 142s are currently getting with new seat covers and an internal repaint?

 

[tom1649]

Highly unlikely. In my view, any 'proper' refurbishment is going to have to wait until a decision is made on what will happen to the fleet after 2020 with regards to the DDA regulations.

Andy is likely referring to the ongoing scheme of new seat covers and repaint which is ongoing albeit very slowly.

 

[northwichcat]

So if he was manning the FGW or EMT Twitter feeds his manager would have likely told him to talk about refreshes not refurbishments.

 

[tom1649]

Probably. Has Northern ever done anything more than a refresh to any of its units?

I'm sure I've heard them refer to refurbishments before which have turned out to be little more than a refresh.

 

[northwichcat]

Probably. Has Northern ever done anything more than a refresh to any of its units?

No. The most they've done is on the ex-FNW 156s which retain the original seats and toilet.

The last proper refurbishment of any of the stock Northern have is the ex-FNW 150s which was around the same time the c2c 357s were introduced - they both got the same type of seating but in different colours.

I'm sure I've heard them refer to refurbishments before which have turned out to be little more than a refresh.

Some people claim Northern looked at new seats on some of the Sprinters but decided they'd cost too much.

 

[tom1649]

No. The most they've done is on the ex-FNW 156s which retain the original seats and toilet.

The last proper refurbishment of any of the stock Northern have is the ex-FNW 150s which was around the same time the c2c 357s were introduced - they both got the same type of seating but in different colours.



Some people claim Northern looked at new seats on some of the Sprinters but decided they'd cost too much.

Of course the original Ashbourne seating in the 156s was replaced with Chapmans by NWRR/NWT in the 90s.

I heard that any new type of seating has to be approved for crash worthiness and the Chapmans are now out of production, therefore it is cheaper to stick with the Ashbournes on ex Centro/ATN 150s.

Where's the incentive for Northern to carry out a proper refurbishment anyway? With less than 3 years left on a franchise they might not win next time around you can maybe understand them having a 'not our problem' attitude, especially regarding the forthcoming 2020 regulations.

 

[northwichcat]

Where's the incentive for Northern to carry out a proper refurbishment anyway? With less than 3 years left on a franchise they might not win next time around you can maybe understand them having a 'not our problem' attitude, especially regarding the forthcoming 2020 regulations.

It needs the extension to be given on revised terms e.g. subsidy for extension will be £x per year instead of £y per year, the extension will include z numbers of additional carriages allocated and require a minimum of £w of franchisee investment in the following areas....

 

[tom1649]

It needs the extension to be given on revised terms e.g. subsidy for extension will be £x per year instead of £y per year, the extension will include z numbers of additional carriages allocated and require a minimum of £w of franchisee investment in the following areas....

Do you think this will happen?

 

[northwichcat]

Do you think this will happen?

Apart from the reduced subsidy and a few extra cascaded EMUs as and when they become available - no.

 

[156441]

It's just a refresh starting with the ex Arriva units then the Merseyrail ones.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Has anything official come out of Northern Rail with regard to this specific matter ?......All on this thread so far seems hearsay.

 

[northwichcat]

It's just a refresh starting with the ex Arriva units then the Merseyrail ones.

I've been on one of the Merseyrail ones with Northern Rail blue seats but there were around 150 people on the train at the time and I didn't get a seat so I couldn't get a good look at what had been done, I barely even noticed it had been done.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Has anything official come out of Northern Rail with regard to this specific matter ?

It was a Northern Rail employee who tweeted about it using the official Northern Rail Twitter account. Another one has responded to tweets querying it saying they are looking in to it.

 

[tom1649]

Has anything official come out of Northern Rail with regard to this specific matter ?......All on this thread so far seems hearsay.

Why would anything official come out if it's just a continuation of the refresh scheme? There is no evidence of this 'refurbishment' other than a Northern Rail employee's choice of term if that's what you mean.

I've been on one of the Merseyrail ones with Northern Rail blue seats but there were around 150 people on the train at the time and I didn't get a seat so I couldn't get a good look at what had been done, I barely even noticed it had been done.

Hopefully it didn't smell as dank as it did before. That's my experience of the 'Merseyrail' units.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Why would anything official come out if it's just a continuation of the refresh scheme? There is no evidence of this 'refurbishment' other than a Northern Rail employee's choice of term if that's what you mean.

That "choice of term" definately says "that Northern are to refurbish all the Class 142's". Both you and I understand the difference between "refresh" and "refurbish" and I would expect an employee of Northern using the official Northern Rail twitter account to also be fully aware of the difference.

 

[Old Hill Bank]

Refresh, refurbish!! if they are to have a long term future on the network they need re-engineering.

 

[tom1649]

That "choice of term" definately says "that Northern are to refurbish all the Class 142's". Both you and I understand the difference between "refresh" and "refurbish" and I would expect an employee of Northern using the official Northern Rail twitter account to also be fully aware of the difference.

We might expect them to yes, but sadly it doesn't necessarily mean that's the case.

Don't tell me you haven't heard a TOC refer to a scheme as a refurbishment when it really isn't by any stretch of the imagination. It's naturally in their interests to exaggerate these things and milk them for all they're worth. Call me cynical if you like.

 

[Ron Grouted]

"No. The most they've done is on the ex-FNW 156s which retain the original seats and toilet."

What about the current, almost at an end, 323 complete refurb..?
142 refurb is correct. Ongoing as we speak.

 

[tom1649]

What about the current, almost at an end, 323 complete refurb..?

You'd call that a refurbishment then, not a refresh? Think carefully before you reply.

Welcome to the forum, by the way.

 

[jon0844]

There are plans for the 143s at least to be given a radical refurbishment, by the ROSCO, presumably to keep them earning money beyond 2020 instead of being scrapped.

It presumably hasn't been decided if this will go ahead, but I expect the ROSCO will be quite keen. I think it won't go ahead unless there are assurances that the newly refurbished trains would comply with the necessary regulations to be allowed to continue in service.

 

[tom1649]

There are plans for the 143s at least to be given a radical refurbishment, by the ROSCO, presumably to keep them earning money beyond 2020 instead of being scrapped.

It presumably hasn't been decided if this will go ahead, but I expect the ROSCO will be quite keen. I think it won't go ahead unless there are assurances that the newly refurbished trains would comply with the necessary regulations to be allowed to continue in service.

Or that the resultant reduction in seating during a time of increasing demand will prove to be economic? What have the 143s got to do with Northern anyway?

 

[Old Hill Bank]

Or that the resultant reduction in seating during a time of increasing demand will prove to be economic? What have the 143s got to do with Northern anyway?

The thread is titled class 142 refurbishment not Northern and we are all in fear of getting then in any future rolling stock re-shuffle!

 

[SprinterMan]

I hope to god the Merseyrail 142s get new seats when they are done, I don't care what seats they get as they will be better than the current ones even if they are made of wood like a park bench.

Adam

 

[tom1649]

I hope to god the Merseyrail 142s get new seats when they are done, I don't care what seats they get as they will be better than the current ones even if they are made of wood like a park bench.

Adam

If they are done.

Why would they be putting new covers on the existing Merseyrail seats if they're about to rip them out?

I suppose stranger things have happened, like the stories of signal boxes being closed for good two weeks after being given a complete repaint.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Refresh, refurbish!! if they are to have a long term future on the network they need re-engineering.

They need burning lol

 

[Manchester77]

If they are done.

Why would they be putting new covers on the existing Merseyrail seats if they're about to rip them out?

What?
He said he hopes the ex-MerseyRail 142s get new seats, nothing to do with covers...

 

[SprinterMan]

If they are done.

Why would they be putting new covers on the existing Merseyrail seats if they're about to rip them out?

I suppose stranger things have happened, like the stories of signal boxes being closed for good two weeks after being given a complete repaint.

What?
He said he hopes the ex-MerseyRail 142s get new seats, nothing to do with covers...

Sorry if I wasn't clear. What I meant was that instead of new seat covers, I hope the actual seats are replaced in the merseyrail units.

Adam

 

[tom1649]

My point was that seeing as Northern is at this moment fitting new seat covers to the Merseyrail 142s, they aren't suddenly going to change the seats over are they? That would be a false economy. If that still doesn't make sense I apologise.

 

[SprinterMan]

My point was that seeing as Northern is at this moment fitting new seat covers to the Merseyrail 142s, they aren't suddenly going to change the seats over are they? That would be a false economy. If that still doesn't make sense I apologise.

Oh right, I thought only the bus seated ones and Northern Spirit seated ones had been fitted with new seat covers, and the MerseyRail ones hadn't been started on yet.

Adam

 

[northwichcat]

"No. The most they've done is on the ex-FNW 156s which retain the original seats and toilet."

What about the current, almost at an end, 323 complete refurb..?

I was meaning the 156s have had the most extensive refurbishment. The 323s still retain the same seats and toilets. In fact the 323s have had a backward modification - replacing the destination displays with more archaic destination blinds.

 

[tom1649]

Oh right, I thought only the bus seated ones and Northern Spirit seated ones had been fitted with new seat covers, and the MerseyRail ones hadn't been started on yet.

Adam

Took me a while to find a picture, but find one I did:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/20452054@N04/6884147819/in/photostream/

I was meaning the 156s have had the most extensive refurbishment. The 323s still retain the same seats and toilets. In fact the 323s have had a backward modification - replacing the destination displays with more archaic destination blinds.

Destination blinds that don't even have the most useful destinations such as "Hadfield" on them!