Class 120 DMUs

[Shaw S Hunter]

As a young(ish) spotter what struck me most about the 120s was their somewhat rugged appearance thanks to the thick central pillar at the cab ends. This suggestion of heaviness was enhanced by the obvious sluggishness when accelerating from rest: were they somewhat longer geared for their original duties?

By the time I started to see them they had largely been displaced from those original routes, with the exception of the Central Wales Line (as the Heart of Wales Line was then known) and I came to associate them with Crewe-Derby-Lincoln and linked services. IIRC the opposite services more or less crossed at Derby (efficient pathing at Derby's south end) with one of the services using the south end bay. When spotting at Derby this created a nuisance factor as this tended to block the view across the platforms at that end for a period each hour.

As for the asbestos insulation shortening their lives this didn't necessarily apply to all similarly afflicted units. Is it possible that the relatively good interior build quality made remodelling the seating layout while also dealing with the asbestos more expensive than normal?

 

[norbitonflyer]

One buffet trailer at GCR. https://preserved.railcar.co.uk/59276.html

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Yesterday at 10:16 ==

The excellent Railcar website quotes one buffet car - foot of this linked page

Class 120 DMU

.

I stand corrected.
Fortunately one vehicle with the distinctive "Swindon" cab survives, although not currently in use, in the shape of Class 126 51043, as part of a 3car set at Bo'ness
Sadly, none of the stylish Class 124 driving cars survive.

 

[Ash Bridge]

It’s rather sad that a complete 3 car unit could not be saved of either class 119 or 120 cross country types, probably highly unlikely but a hybrid made up of the surviving class 120 centre trailer and 2 class 119 driving motor cars would look nice. Does anyone have any knowledge of this ever happening back in the day on BR?

 

[nw1]

Note the varying window spacing, presumably to match closely to the interior seating layout. There's a coachbuilding skill we seem to have lost.

Here is a rarer location for one of these:

View attachment 211594

Got a date on that? I note the unusual combination of blue/grey for the DMU and an old-style station name board.

 

[norbitonflyer]

As a young(ish) spotter what struck me most about the 120s was their somewhat rugged appearance thanks to the thick central pillar at the cab ends. This suggestion of heaviness was enhanced by the obvious sluggishness when accelerating from rest: were they somewhat longer geared for their original duties?

Possibly, but they were certainly heavier than most 3-car sets - 103.5 tons compared to 86 tons for a 3-car class 104. (They were of course longer, being built on 64 foot frames rather than the 56 foot frames of the low density units (classes 100-113). The Gloucester sets (Class 119) were even heavier at 106 tons .

They were certainly less sprightly compared to the 114s they worked alongside at Lincoln, which packed 460hp to shift just 67 tons (6.9hp/ton), compared with 5.8hp/ton for the 120s (unladen - with all seats taken at "16 to the ton", those figures become 6.1 and 5.3)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Yesterday at 10:52 ==

Got a date on that? I note the unusual combination of blue/grey for the DMU and an old-style station name board.

That's Grosmont. Although it's the BR platform, the nameboard looks to be in keeping with the NYMR who run the station faciities.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Seems to be dated 05/1974, there is also what appears to be a set number (EP597) inside the non driving side windscreen suggesting its allocated to Etches Park Derby?

 

[Sun Chariot]

It’s rather sad that a complete 3 car unit could not be saved of either class 119 or 120 cross country types, probably highly unlikely but a hybrid made up of the surviving class 120 centre trailer and 2 class 119 driving motor cars would look nice. Does anyone have any knowledge of this ever happening back in the day on BR?

No evidence of a 120/119 hybrid within the c.1,200 images on the excellent Railcar site. The class 120 hybrids shown:
120 + 101
120 + 105
120 + 111
120 + 116
My grey cells think there was an Ayrshire 120 + 107 hybrid in 1985/6 but I may well be wrong.

Claases 119 and 120 were, operationally, in different spheres and the Trailer Buffet car was typically swapped for a Trailer Second (thus ruling out, for example, swapping a 120 Trailer Buffet for a 119 Trailer Buffet).

 

[Acathater]

Claases 119 and 120 were, operationally, in different spheres and the Trailer Buffet car was typically swapped for a Trailer Second (thus ruling out, for example, swapping a 120 Trailer Buffet for a 119 Trailer Buffet).

Class 119 and 120 were both built for dieselisation of the WR services around Bristol / South Wales and while there shared the same routes and were treated as interchangeable. It's almost inevitable that at times 119/120 hybrid units would have been used. I can remember one trip on the Weymouth route in the 1970s when we had one 119 cab and one 120 cab, but can't remember the central trailer

 

[nw1]

Seems to be dated 05/1974, there is also what appears to be a set number (EP597) inside the non driving side windscreen suggesting its allocated to Etches Park Derby?

Thanks.

 

[JKF]

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Yesterday at 10:16 ==


I stand corrected.
Fortunately one vehicle with the distinctive "Swindon" cab survives, although not currently in use, in the shape of Class 126 51043, as part of a 3car set at Bo'ness
Sadly, none of the stylish Class 124 driving cars survive.

There’s a few out in Liberia too, just about! (E&G units, not 120s)

 

[Sun Chariot]

Class 119 and 120 were both built for dieselisation of the WR services around Bristol / South Wales and while there shared the same routes and were treated as interchangeable. It's almost inevitable that at times 119/120 hybrid units would have been used. I can remember one trip on the Weymouth route in the 1970s when we had one 119 cab and one 120 cab, but can't remember the central trailer

Fascinating to know - thanks for sharing

 

[eastwestdivide]

what appears to be a set number (EP597) inside the non driving side windscreen suggesting its allocated to Etches Park Derby?

Those EP Etches Park set numbers lasted into the early 1980s. Somewhere I may have some spotting notes with set details when I used to see them all too regularly at Leicester.

 

[norbitonflyer]

We discussed this before, unlike other BR Regions every build of dmu for the WR (BR Derby, Gloucester, Pressed Steel, Birmingham RCW) was specified with the Derby cab (which I believe were actually built at Derby and supplied to the contractors) apart from the WR's own build at Swindon.

It seems that although the private contractors each designed their own cabs for the short framed units (Classes 100-113) - Birmingham RC&W actually producing quite different designs for their two classes, 104 and 110 - they all used Derby cabs for the long framed units (classes 117-122) - the only exception being the Gloucester RC&W class 128 parcels units, which had to incorporate a gangway end.

Is there any reason for this?

 

[Harpo]

the Central Wales Line (as the Heart of Wales Line was then known)

It’s still the Central Wales Line according to its engineers’ line reference of CWL.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Class 119 and 120 were both built for dieselisation of the WR services around Bristol / South Wales and while there shared the same routes and were treated as interchangeable. It's almost inevitable that at times 119/120 hybrid units would have been used. I can remember one trip on the Weymouth route in the 1970s when we had one 119 cab and one 120 cab, but can't remember the central trailer

Three 119s were delivered without trailers. Whtherb the inteion was to run them as two car sets, or use the six power cars as spares, is unclear. later, three ex GWR vehicles were converted to run with them, W7254W, W7804W and W7813W

Hawksworth Coaches

They were replaced with Class 101 trailers in 1967 - these presumably surplus from 4-car sets being reduced to three

 

[Acathater]

Three 119s were delivered without trailers. Whtherb the inteion was to run them as two car sets, or use the six power cars as spares, is unclear. later, three ex GWR vehicles were converted to run with them, W7254W, W7804W and W7813W

Hawksworth Coaches

They were replaced with Class 101 trailers in 1967 - these presumably surplus from 4-car sets being reduced to three

I'd be inclined to think the two-car sets may have been acquired to up the power/weight ratio on hilly routes like Yeovil-Weymouth.

 

[Taunton]

I'd be inclined to think the two-car sets may have been acquired to up the power/weight ratio on hilly routes like Yeovil-Weymouth.

They weren't actually used as such on mainstream routes, but the 2-cars were run on minor lines not needing three cars. Taunton to Barnstaple was one, it needed three sets, used (inefficiently) all day, whereas the Minehead line which was used much more had 3-car sets, interworked with the local service from Taunton to Bristol.

In the winter, on the middle section between Wiveliscombe and South Molton on the Barnstaple line, the number of underfloor diesel engines in the train might outnumber the passengers

 

[Whisky Papa]

The 120's that came to NH came from a variety of depots, Laira, Inverness and Derby. They generally replaced the 3 car 104's which were reduced to 2 car 104's, which allowed the Cravens 105's (and NH's other oddballs 100/105 to be replaced) -eventually. They were also de-classified, so some even better seats in the old 1st class!

I recall them being used on the Calder Valley when I first moved to Todmorden in late 1984, and particularly the declassified section. As we also saw Class 123 and 124 units on the line, it was quite a variety at this period!

My commute to Manchester Victoria was soon rudely interrupted by the Summit Tunnel fire, and finished soon after the tunnel was reopened. I can't recall for certain if they also appeared on the Littleborough - Manchester Victoria shuttle service that was put in place?

 

[Ash Bridge]

No evidence of a 120/119 hybrid within the c.1,200 images on the excellent Railcar site. The class 120 hybrids shown:
120 + 101
120 + 105
120 + 111
120 + 116
My grey cells think there was an Ayrshire 120 + 107 hybrid in 1985/6 but I may well be wrong.

Claases 119 and 120 were, operationally, in different spheres and the Trailer Buffet car was typically swapped for a Trailer Second (thus ruling out, for example, swapping a 120 Trailer Buffet for a 119 Trailer Buffet).

Thanks, some interesting combinations there - especially the Cravens 105 and the 116 suburban trailers, I was aware of the Met Cam use during their later years.

Those EP Etches Park set numbers lasted into the early 1980s. Somewhere I may have some spotting notes with set details when I used to see them all too regularly at Leicester.

So a very similar situation to Longsight, Newton Heath, Chester & I think Allerton over this side of the Pennines then - they all mainly used a board placed in the leftside cab window though from memory many depots further south seemed to apply the number to the cab exterior?

 

[matchmaker]

Travelled from Aberdeen to Inverness on one of these in 1979 with my long-suffering grandmother. I think it had an open buffet and it definitely had a tablet catcher.

Yes, a Mansons tablet catcher operated by the guard. The Aberdeen - Inverness line was the last place that any automatic token exchange apparatus was used in the UK, ASAIK. I was lucky enough to see it in action at Elgin in the early 1970s.

 

[SuspectUsual]

My commute to Manchester Victoria was soon rudely interrupted by the Summit Tunnel fire, and finished soon after the tunnel was reopened. I can't recall for certain if they also appeared on the Littleborough - Manchester Victoria shuttle service that was put in place?

My memory of those is predominantly 110s and some 104s, but there could have been 120s as well

 

[norbitonflyer]

Thanks, some interesting combinations there - especially the Cravens 105 and the 116 suburban trailers, I was aware of the Met Cam use during their later years.


So a very similar situation to Longsight, Newton Heath, Chester & I think Allerton over this side of the Pennines then - they all mainly used a board placed in the leftside cab window though from memory many depots further south seemed to apply the number to the cab exterior?

Mainly a Western thing, although the Scottish region did so later. Norwich seemed to use several styles, black on yellow, white on black, stencils, and sometimes as a pair of paper labels, with the two digits in different typefaces.

 

[Harpers Tate]

Got a date on that? I note the unusual combination of blue/grey for the DMU and an old-style station name board.

1974 E&OE.

As to the station sign, on the same roll of film there are pictures of
- Whitby with orange (NE Region) platform signs
- Sheringham (BR) with Dark Blue (ER) sign
- Machynlleth with a Chocolate totem sign
etc, so I'm guessing it's nothing to do with the NYMR's presence there.

 

[SCH117X]

The Etches Park ones were displaced by the first 150/0s. My overriding memory of them was on the 2020 New Street - Leicester (to Cambridge IIRC) on a winters evening with it pitch black outside and the only illumination by the not very bright internal bulbs as the 120 rocked from side to side almost as if it was an elderly plane in slight turbulence.

 

[norbitonflyer]

We discussed this before, unlike other BR Regions every build of dmu for the WR (BR Derby, Gloucester, Pressed Steel, Birmingham RCW) was specified with the Derby cab (which I believe were actually built at Derby and supplied to the contractors)

Despite that there is some variety in the Derby cabs, apart from the obvious change from 2- to 4-character headcode panels. The class 127s and most class 118s had a distinct curve to the top of the headcode panel, whereas the 107, 108, 115, 117 and 121's headcode panels were flat-topped.

 

[Taunton]

No evidence of a 120/119 hybrid within the c.1,200 images on the excellent Railcar site. The class 120 hybrids shown:
120 + 101
120 + 105
120 + 111
120 + 116
My grey cells think there was an Ayrshire 120 + 107 hybrid in 1985/6 but I may well be wrong.

The WR was more consistent with their formations than others, and many of the sets were still with the cars they were delivered with 20 years or more later, whereas other regions regarded them more as loose vehicles. There was some swapping around of trailers with associated pairs of power cars, and I have written before about the units sent to the former Southern lines west of Salisbury, where there was a formal trailer exchange to give at least one car per set with toilets, the Cross-Country units having two such, and the Suburbans none, at the expense of breaking any gangway connections.

 

[Gloster]

There’s a few out in Liberia too, just about! (E&G units, not 120s)

Five of the Edinburgh-Glasgow ‘White Star’ DMBSL were sold to LAMCO (Liberian-American-Swedish Mining Company) in 1972, four being overhauled at St Rollox before despatch. Long out of use, the rusting shells of some may still be there. There is some information on the Derby Sulzers website.

 

[Taunton]

Five of the Edinburgh-Glasgow ‘White Star’ DMBSL were sold to LAMCO (Liberian-American-Swedish Mining Company) in 1972, four being overhauled at St Rollox before despatch. Long out of use, the rusting shells of some may still be there. There is some information on the Derby Sulzers website.

That was a real bit of salesmanship, the cars were withdrawn in May 1971 when the push-pull 2x27 took over the service, and never worked again, being regarded as worn out by 15 years of high speed (for a dmu) running. The rest of the fleet were still in Polmadie sidings at the start of 1974, which I can date accurately as I passed them, covered in snow, on the way to a New Year's party to see that year in - and was surprised they were still around.

 

[Stathern Jc]

I remember the 120s seeming to be significantly more comfortable than other first generation DMUs in the East Midlands.

By the early 80s most types had developed signs of age, windows resonating with engines ticking over in stations.

The 120s weren't immune.
The memory of a morning journey from Derby to Crewe in the mid 80s still sticks in my mind.
Unbeknown to me, the bolt on the door behind which I was sitting had rattled and slid along to a point where, when going round a corner a few miles before Uttoxeter the door suddenly swung open. I was relieved to find that nobody was following the door as it opened, anyone who had been might have had a shock too!

 

[Sprinter107]

It’s rather sad that a complete 3 car unit could not be saved of either class 119 or 120 cross country types, probably highly unlikely but a hybrid made up of the surviving class 120 centre trailer and 2 class 119 driving motor cars would look nice. Does anyone have any knowledge of this ever happening back in the day on

It’s rather sad that a complete 3 car unit could not be saved of either class 119 or 120 cross country types, probably highly unlikely but a hybrid made up of the surviving class 120 centre trailer and 2 class 119 driving motor cars would look nice. Does anyone have any knowledge of this ever happening back in the day on BR?

Reading set L571 was 2 class 119 driving cars with a class 120 centre car at one point in the early 80s. 59282 was the number. There is a picture of it on the excellent Railcar UK website of it at Reading. Look at the underframe, its very apparent.