Clan Line's Smoke Halts Service Train

[Deepgreen]

An unusual (possibly unique post-1968?) event occurred today, when the 'Belmond Pullman' Kent circular tour, headed by Bulleid 'pacific' 35028 'Clan Line' had trouble climbing Hildenborough bank as rain started (presumably slipping). The train lost around 8 minutes on the climb, and the following service train, from Ramsgate to Charing Cross, had to stop in Sevenoaks tunnel as the driver could not see the road/signals ahead owing to the pall of smoke within! I caught that train and the class 375 had a fair amount of smoke inside, such that the driver had to announce that she had been unable to see and hence had stopped in the tunnel, and that the train was not on fire! In steam days, there was a special instruction concerning the length of time that was required to elapse for a train to enter Sevenoaks tunnel in the up direction after a steam train had passed - who could have foreseen that the issue would occur again around 60 years later!

 

[Cowley]

An unusual (possibly unique post-1968?) event occurred today, when the 'Belmond Pullman' Kent circular tour, headed by Bulleid 'pacific' 35028 'Clan Line' had trouble climbing Hildenborough bank as rain started (presumably slipping). The train lost around 8 minutes on the climb, and the following service train, from Ramsgate to Charing Cross, had to stop in Sevenoaks tunnel as the driver could not see the road/signals ahead owing to the pall of smoke within! I caught that train and the class 375 had a fair amount of smoke inside, such that the driver had to announce that she had been unable to see and hence had stopped in the tunnel, and that the train was not on fire! In steam days, there was a special instruction concerning the length of time that was required to elapse for a train to enter Sevenoaks tunnel in the up direction after a steam train had passed - who could have foreseen that the issue would occur again around 60 years later!

I was away at the weekend covering a few steam railways in the south east and I was struck a few times by how sulphurous the smoke was on the various lines we travelled on. Has there been a change of coal in the industry recently, or have I just become more sensitive to it!

 

[156421]

I was away at the weekend covering a few steam railways in the south east and I was struck a few times by how sulphurous the smoke was on the various lines we travelled on. Has there been a change of coal in the industry recently, or have I just become more sensitive to it!

most likely a change of coal due to ban on Russian imports

 

[LowLevel]

I was once the guard on a class 158 that crossed a steam loco in Cowburn Tunnel. I got a call from the driver to say he could see bugger all as the pressure had sucked it in through the open cab window and the passengers sent a deputation to the back cab to bang on the door where I was eating my sandwiches to tell me they thought the train was on fire (happily they'd had the presence of mind not to pull the pass com in the smoke filled tunnel).

Happy days!

 

[Invincible]

most likely a change of coal due to ban on Russian imports

And ending of coal mining in UK in 2022.
The HRA are looking at potential coal supplies for heratige trains, some railways have limited coal stock and prices for new imported coal have increased.
There must be an existing thread on this?

It's also affecting the steel industry which currently uses a different type of coal.

Coal

Heritage railways need coal, but not all coal is the same.

www.hra.uk.com

 

[D Williams]

And ending of coal mining in UK in 2022.
The HRA are looking at potential coal supplies for heratige trains, some railways have limited coal stock and prices for new imported coal have increased.
There must be an existing thread on this?

It's also affecting the steel industry which currently uses a different type of coal.

Coal

Heritage railways need coal, but not all coal is the same.

www.hra.uk.com

Heritage Railways have been using imported coal for years. Poland and Columbia were favourite but also from Indonesia. This was in the 1990's when the NCB was being wound up. Once Fros-y-fran in South Wales came into production many reverted to this source.
However the greenies have closed that so coal now comes from Azerbaijan ( I've no idea where this is). It can be pretty foul stuff and produce a lot of smoke. Prices have dropped a bit but it's still a tenuous situation. Primary steel making, the process that requires coking coal, is rapidly coming to an end in the UK as we transition to a peasant economy. Synthetic coal has been tried with varying success / failure. So..if you want to see steam locos in use don't look too far into the future. I suspect before long there will a move to ban the import of coal completely.

 

[Harpo]

What’s expected of train drivers during dense fog these days??

 

[Mike Machin]

Heritage Railways have been using imported coal for years. Poland and Columbia were favourite but also from Indonesia. This was in the 1990's when the NCB was being wound up. Once Fros-y-fran in South Wales came into production many reverted to this source.
However the greenies have closed that so coal now comes from Azerbaijan ( I've no idea where this is). It can be pretty foul stuff and produce a lot of smoke. Prices have dropped a bit but it's still a tenuous situation. Primary steel making, the process that requires coking coal, is rapidly coming to an end in the UK as we transition to a peasant economy. Synthetic coal has been tried with varying success / failure. So..if you want to see steam locos in use don't look too far into the future. I suspect before long there will a move to ban the import of coal completely.

Steam will continue, but it's highly likely that the amount of steam traction on both the main line and on heritage railways will decline as coal becomes increasingly difficult to source, poorer in quality and prohibitively expensive. The future of working steam will rely mainly on conversion to oil firing which has been used very successfully around the world and in this country too during the coal shortages in the late 1940s.

 

[Deepgreen]

What’s expected of train drivers during dense fog these days??

Modern signals (LEDs) are intense and so sighting is very rarely a problem, especially as multi-aspects give warnings of the likely following aspect. I imagine the requirements for semaphores are the same as ever.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Sep 2024 ==

Heritage Railways have been using imported coal for years. Poland and Columbia were favourite but also from Indonesia. This was in the 1990's when the NCB was being wound up. Once Fros-y-fran in South Wales came into production many reverted to this source.
However the greenies have closed that so coal now comes from Azerbaijan ( I've no idea where this is). It can be pretty foul stuff and produce a lot of smoke. Prices have dropped a bit but it's still a tenuous situation. Primary steel making, the process that requires coking coal, is rapidly coming to an end in the UK as we transition to a peasant economy. Synthetic coal has been tried with varying success / failure. So..if you want to see steam locos in use don't look too far into the future. I suspect before long there will a move to ban the import of coal completely.

Really? Much as I love steam traction, I recognise that it cannot be forever. Finding alternative and better sources of energy does not mean a "peasant economy", very obviously.

 

[railfan99]

Steam will continue, but it's highly likely that the amount of steam traction on both the main line and on heritage railways will decline as coal becomes increasingly difficult to source, poorer in quality and prohibitively expensive. The future of working steam will rely mainly on conversion to oil firing which has been used very successfully around the world and in this country too during the coal shortages in the late 1940s.

Doesn't UK steam locomotive coal come from a variety of sources, blended by coal merchants of which there's at least one specialist entity in England?

What makes you say 'coal will become poorer in quality?' Australia has excellent quality thermal and coking coal though admittedly is distant. There's at least one mine (Ravensworth) in the NSW Hunter Valley that allegedly can supply suitable coal for steam locos. There must also be closer supply sources such as Kazakhstan.

 

[Recessio]

An unusual (possibly unique post-1968?) event occurred today, when the 'Belmond Pullman' Kent circular tour, headed by Bulleid 'pacific' 35028 'Clan Line' had trouble climbing Hildenborough bank as rain started (presumably slipping). The train lost around 8 minutes on the climb, and the following service train, from Ramsgate to Charing Cross, had to stop in Sevenoaks tunnel as the driver could not see the road/signals ahead owing to the pall of smoke within! I caught that train and the class 375 had a fair amount of smoke inside, such that the driver had to announce that she had been unable to see and hence had stopped in the tunnel, and that the train was not on fire! In steam days, there was a special instruction concerning the length of time that was required to elapse for a train to enter Sevenoaks tunnel in the up direction after a steam train had passed - who could have foreseen that the issue would occur again around 60 years later!

It'd be interesting to know if that special instruction is still technically "on the books" and has just been unnecessary for sixty years!

 

[Bikeman78]

An unusual (possibly unique post-1968?) event occurred today, when the 'Belmond Pullman' Kent circular tour, headed by Bulleid 'pacific' 35028 'Clan Line' had trouble climbing Hildenborough bank as rain started (presumably slipping). The train lost around 8 minutes on the climb, and the following service train, from Ramsgate to Charing Cross, had to stop in Sevenoaks tunnel as the driver could not see the road/signals ahead owing to the pall of smoke within! I caught that train and the class 375 had a fair amount of smoke inside, such that the driver had to announce that she had been unable to see and hence had stopped in the tunnel, and that the train was not on fire! In steam days, there was a special instruction concerning the length of time that was required to elapse for a train to enter Sevenoaks tunnel in the up direction after a steam train had passed - who could have foreseen that the issue would occur again around 60 years later!

I take it there are signals in the tunnel? Otherwise I'm struggling to understand why anyone would stop in a smoke filled tunnel.

 

[30907]

I take it there are signals in the tunnel? Otherwise I'm struggling to understand why anyone would stop in a smoke filled tunnel.

There are (and in Polhill) - it was something of a novelty when they were first installed in the early 60s.

 

[Bald Rick]

What’s expected of train drivers during dense fog these days??

Very anecdotally, but the number of times we get dense fog now is much reduced, presumably linked to the widespread reduction in the use of coal. I can remember regular fog bound days well into the 90s, but its a very very rare event now.

 

[Deepgreen]

Very anecdotally, but the number of times we get dense fog now is much reduced, presumably linked to the widespread reduction in the use of coal. I can remember regular fog bound days well into the 90s, but its a very very rare event now.

Absolutely so. 'Proper' fog (i.e. visibility below 100 metres) is noteworthy these days, and much of what some people call 'fog' is actually mist (visibility below 1000m, which are the aviation definitions, I believe).

 

[westcoaster]

What’s expected of train drivers during dense fog these days??

If they had entered the tunnel on a cautionary aspect with a red ahead then, stopping is the right judgement call (especially if you know you are following a steam train). We had several instances of passing a steam train in a tunnel and having 12 smoke alarms activate.

 

[Bikeman78]

If they had entered the tunnel on a cautionary aspect with a red ahead then, stopping is the right judgement call (especially if you know you are following a steam train). We had several instances of passing a steam train in a tunnel and having 12 smoke alarms activate.

Is it not possible to hold the following train at the signal before the tunnel until it can be given a clear run through? As I mentioned above, stopping in a tunnel full of smoke has the potential to go wrong very quickly. How long was the train in question at a stand? How much smoke got inside the train? Last year I was on a 465 that followed a steam loco through Penge tunnel. There was a lot of smoke. I certainly would not have wanted to stop in the tunnel.

 

[Deepgreen]

Is it not possible to hold the following train at the signal before the tunnel until it can be given a clear run through? As I mentioned above, stopping in a tunnel full of smoke has the potential to go wrong very quickly. How long was the train in question at a stand? How much smoke got inside the train? Last year I was on a 465 that followed a steam loco through Penge tunnel. There was a lot of smoke. I certainly would not have wanted to stop in the tunnel.

The old (still extant?) operating procedure from the 1960s did essentially just that. A set time had to elapse to allow exhaust dispersal before the next train (by then there were far more electrics than steam) could enter. I boarded the train involved at Sevenaoks and there was a thick 'fug' inside. The driver announced she had had to stop in the tunnel as her view ahead was obscured. Now, modern colour (LED) lights penetrate smoke, etc., very well, so I can't say whether the signal's sighting was sufficiently poor to justify stopping. I suspect I might have continued at low speed, as stopping would probably bring more smoke inside and might alarm passengers who have an unexpected stop in the tunnel plus the train filling with smoke! However, I wasn't in the cab so cannot second-guess her actions.