Cityfox Bus

[freetoview33]

Difference is Hallmark actually operate coaches!

 

[PhilStockley]

Rhys was recently bragging that he designed the Nallmark livery.

I realise that you waste no opportunity to have a very personal dig at Rhys and/or CityFox but please don't tell lies. He made no such claim and indeed when questioned stated specifically that he didn't design the logo.

What I am going to do is say that MR Stockley would be well advised to think about the brush that he had with the TC.

What a hugely patronising statement. Who on earth do you think you are to give me such "advice"? And what are you insinuating by it? As I recall (and I was there) the TC was very complimentary about me and my attitude to compliance and certainly made no findings against my repute or professional competence, and nothing has changed.

Isn't there a currently registered service that this mob are supposed to be running?

No, not at all.


General Comments: Freedom of speech and all that, of course any contributors or readers of this forum are perfectly entitled to hold whatever opinion they wish of me, Rhys and the operations(s) we represent. I have no problem with constructive debate, may well agree with some comments even when they're critical - nobody is perfect, least of all me or us. I would remind the more intelligent readers that what is not written is sometimes as important as what is written!

However, this thread seems to be following a pattern common to most CityFox threads wherein there is a level of constructive debate for a few days (not all of it agreeing with me or Rhys, that's perfectly fair enough) and then when it dies down a bit, the haters creep out of the woodwork and take the whole thing in a highly personal direction, kicking the stuffing out of Rhys, dredging up the same old rubbish from years ago that has been reheated more times than I've had hot dinners and inventing facts to suit their prejudices.

Of course he hasn't done everything right and of course he makes mistakes - he's admitted that in these forums themselves. Of course he will make some more mistakes over time - some highlighted in this very thread - so I'm not here to suggest that he or we are beyond criticism, and part of my involvement is because we can be honest about some of those things between ourselves and try to move things forward.

But I sleep easily at night knowing that I would rather be spending some of my time helping someone improve and better themselves than be sitting in the comfort of my armchair hiding behind anonymity, slinging mud at someone who I've never met, who's story I hardly know and who has never done anything to hurt me.

 

[THarris123]

I realise that you waste no opportunity to have a very personal dig at Rhys and/or CityFox but please don't tell lies. He made no such claim and indeed when questioned stated specifically that he didn't design the logo.



What a hugely patronising statement. Who on earth do you think you are to give me such "advice"? And what are you insinuating by it? As I recall (and I was there) the TC was very complimentary about me and my attitude to compliance and certainly made no findings against my repute or professional competence, and nothing has changed.



No, not at all.


General Comments: Freedom of speech and all that, of course any contributors or readers of this forum are perfectly entitled to hold whatever opinion they wish of me, Rhys and the operations(s) we represent. I have no problem with constructive debate, may well agree with some comments even when they're critical - nobody is perfect, least of all me or us. I would remind the more intelligent readers that what is not written is sometimes as important as what is written!

However, this thread seems to be following a pattern common to most CityFox threads wherein there is a level of constructive debate for a few days (not all of it agreeing with me or Rhys, that's perfectly fair enough) and then when it dies down a bit, the haters creep out of the woodwork and take the whole thing in a highly personal direction, kicking the stuffing out of Rhys, dredging up the same old rubbish from years ago that has been reheated more times than I've had hot dinners and inventing facts to suit their prejudices.

Of course he hasn't done everything right and of course he makes mistakes - he's admitted that in these forums themselves. Of course he will make some more mistakes over time - some highlighted in this very thread - so I'm not here to suggest that he or we are beyond criticism, and part of my involvement is because we can be honest about some of those things between ourselves and try to move things forward.

But I sleep easily at night knowing that I would rather be spending some of my time helping someone improve and better themselves than be sitting in the comfort of my armchair hiding behind anonymity, slinging mud at someone who I've never met, who's story I hardly know and who has never done anything to hurt me.

I see Mr Stockley isn't in such a good mood this week (and I can understand why).

This thread is once again becoming a bit tainted with lies, digs and arguments. I set up this thread so we could discuss what Cityfox would be doing in terms of bus services and what plans they have regarding their company.

If you have a problem, please message Mr Stockley or Rhys - as so many people are keen to follow Rhys Twitter feed, why not have a dig on there, rather than on this public domain.

Yes ok Cityfox isn't as professional as it should be, ok we get it. We got that on the last thread that was set up. I don't see people having a constant dig at FSW Official on the Kernow thread and First (or FSW) aren't the most professional that they should always be, so why have such a dig at other professionals in the bus industry on this thread.

I have pretty much given up reading this thread now and I'd highly suggest that others who believe there is substance to Cityfox would do the same.

 

[nesw]

It's not so much having a dig, more that the websites,claims etc don't stand up to scrutiny.

The recent Splendour website is an example and whilst other operators aren't perfect, I think there's a big difference. I'm certainly not aware of any lies on this thread and Mr. S. Would do well to read the Twitter conversation about the Hallmark livery as Rhys doesn't appear to have admitted to not designing it.

I agree that this thread is getting repetitive and I only posted this week to mention the new loyalty card, bus related as it's mentioned that one can gain points from the coach operation.

 

[richw]

I realise that you waste no opportunity to have a very personal dig at Rhys and/or CityFox but please don't tell lies. He made no such claim and indeed when questioned stated specifically that he didn't design the logo.
.

Sorry Phil, but Rhys did make such a claim on twitter, which was later retracted when he was challenged.

However such discussions are not for this thread and I believe such disputes do need to be kept private.
I do believe Rhys is gaining more professionalism but at the end of the day it's his brand to improve or damage as he wishes and should be left to it. Let his customers decide rather than an Internet forum. It's those customers who are paying money to the business that's opinions matter.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Sorry Phil, but Rhys did make such a claim on twitter, which was later retracted when he was challenged.

However such discussions are not for this thread and I believe such disputes do need to be kept private.
I do believe Rhys is gaining more professionalism but at the end of the day it's his brand to improve or damage as he wishes and should be left to it. Let his customers decide rather than an Internet forum. It's those customers who are paying money to the business that's opinions matter.

Quite so Rich. Here's my personal take:

First of all, I’m not one for personal smears. I don’t believe in accusing people of being cowardly. I don’t pour scorn on the professional capabilities of individuals. There is no place for innuendo regarding people’s sexuality. As Sean Spicer would say – period! I also appreciate the defence that Phil has made in Rhys’s dealings and there is no place for unfounded allegations and the like. I’ve not met Phil but my industry contacts are nothing other than complimentary in his experience and skills, surprised by his recent career choices though, as Phil says, he has his reasons for these and that is his concern and no one else.

Likewise, we should applaud individuals with the drive and skills to set up a business and support them appropriately. We shouldn’t bow down to petty jealousies and the like. There is no place for character assassination (as per some aspects of the FBB piece as cited by others).

That said, Phil should perhaps consider why Rhys and Cityfox have attracted so much opprobrium? Why have they attracted so much attention when other businesses seemingly haven’t?

Firstly, if you go looking for attention and publicity, you will attract scrutiny! That is clear enough. It doesn’t excuse unfounded allegations etc. When you make great pronouncements (e.g. Kernow Fox), it will invariably attract attention (which is doubtless what the announcement is meant to achieve).

Now Phil, you may care to disagree with the view that “perception is fact”. Granted just because people have opinions, it doesn’t mean that they’re fair or factual. You may say that this is “ancient history” and not to go back over mistakes from 3 or 4 years ago and that people should move on. In that Rhys made mistakes in the past and things are different now, and that he’s his own worst enemy. Even if people met him, then you might have a different opinion and that there are undoubtedly “haters” who are gonna hate come what may.

All of that may be true and we shouldn’t kowtow to petty minded jealousy.

Sorry to say, that is one person’s fault and no one elses. Looking back at “ancient history”, most people became aware of Cityfox in relation to the setting up of clone pages for Claribels – a respected long established business that could have been damaged by the actions of Cityfox – a business that they had no connection with. Shortly after this, we had the Whittle story. This was followed by Kernow Bus – more web and social media courting but ultimately no substance despite shots of vehicles being prepared for service etc. Also, Fareride Taxis and Buses etc

So why is that relevant now? Well, simply because it constituted a pattern of behaviour whereby
• Social media is used to create publicity through announcements and teasers etc through to full scale announcements yet plans don’t come to fruition
• Legitimate and long established companies were “linked to Cityfox” when they had no connection
• Intellectual property of other businesses was copied in a wholesale manner

That is where the perception comes from. That is a pattern of behaviour that is still happening.

The Splendour websites has copy lifted wholesale from the Hallmark website. Similarly, much of the Cityfox website is lifted directly from the Rotala website and publicity material was also lifted from a Southampton taxi firm. The Bath and Plymouth taxi businesses that were subject to “marketing agreements” that had “structural weaknesses”. Cityfox night buses - "foxes come out at night?" To many, it feels we've been here before.

I’m no hater. I have no reason to hate Rhys, or indeed anyone. Like you, I enjoy a pint and follow a lousy low league football team. I have my own business interests, though have also worked with and within the confines of the corporate world. I can speak only truly for myself.

There are some people who may harbour jealousies in all walks of life; internet forums are a reflection of this though in a more concentrated form. Some are haters or are merely looking to catch people out in some means of one-upmanship in order to showcase their superiority.

However, there are very decent people on this and other forums who have well founded and entirely appropriate levels of scepticism based on events both ancient and modern. My graduate manager training was that to change perceptions, you had to “be different enough for long enough” for perceptions to change.

In conclusion, you won’t convince everyone. You might not give a flying f**k what people think. As RichW says, there's no reason why you should do other than the actual punters and paying clients. However, if you (and I mean Phil, Rhys and Cityfox – both individually and collectively) do care how people in and out the industry perceive you, then

• Don’t use other people’s IP – create your own copy
• Don’t announce anything unless it’s credible
• Be accurate in any claims made

Do that for long enough and people may be more generously disposed towards Cityfox.

 

[BBC]

Sorry Phil, but Rhys did make such a claim on twitter, which was later retracted when he was challenged.

However such discussions are not for this thread and I believe such disputes do need to be kept private.
I do believe Rhys is gaining more professionalism but at the end of the day it's his brand to improve or damage as he wishes and should be left to it. Let his customers decide rather than an Internet forum. It's those customers who are paying money to the business that's opinions matter.

He's gaining more professionalism ? I'm not so sure about that.

 

[PhilStockley]

TheGrandWazoo: I think your analysis is absolutely superb and sums up all the relevant points in a nutshell, including (and perhaps especially) the bits that make for uncomfortable reading.

For me, the interesting point of debate is the extent to which CityFox and Rhys (and to a lesser extent me) are motivated by a desire to be taken seriously by the rest of the industry. Clearly, CityFox is on a journey and among the destinations that need to be taken as a given are professionalism and compliance, and the issues there are very neatly summed up in your post.

However, Rhys is a maverick and always will be, and he is not motivated by wanting to be seen as "one of the chaps" (for want of a better expression). He wants CityFox to be different and innovative, whatever that ends up looking like. I talked a week ago about entrepreneurialism and why that can create unease among inhabitants of forums such as this, because enthusiasts of the industry in its existing form tend to like things that conform neatly to existing models, whereas Rhys is looking for the opportunities that no-one else has found. Of course anyone who sets out to be different puts themselves on a pedestal, and when you've already handed people enough bullets you're going to get shot at.

But I can't accept that that means it's okay to bog down every discussion about the organisation and its activities with personal abuse, false accusations and reheated comments from four years ago when these have frankly been done to death. I sort of think we maybe agree on that, and perhaps it's a forlorn hope that we will ever get clear of that, but it just impedes reasonable discussion and understanding of the Group's current activities, and what motivates its.

While I'm appreciative of your kind comments about me personally, and I certainly do cherish the many strong relationships I hold within the industry, I have for some time been concerned that the industry is complacent and too wedded to existing ways of working in the face of radically changing mobility patterns. That's not to denigrate the innovators (Transdev, Reading etc) who are doing great work in their own way, but there are not enough of them and even then I worry it's all too much about tweaking the existing product rather than looking at the world from a different angle.

That's why I'm excited that so much of the last year for me has been spent learning about different modes of transport and exploring ways to integrate them and - while there is a long way to go and the issues you highlight are very real - I very much hope that CityFox (and others) will find its eventual success in not being afraid to challenge the status quo.

For me, that's where the real debate lies.

 

[6Gman]

from the Splendour website :

"Splendour has an established reputation in corporate and private hire for business or leisure. The Splendour service team has the knowledge and experience to understand and meet your requirements, however complex they may be. Our clients include Corporate, Social Clubs, Sporting Teams and individuals - all of whom enjoy a professional and hassle free service."

The problem with this is that it is bulls**t. Tell the truth do not lie to people. Spendour has no established reputation, there is no Spendour team as such and no Splendour clients. You need to understand that as long as you tell 'alternative' facts you will be critised by those that know the facts. I wish you all the best but do it honestly.

Indeed. How can a company have an established reputation when it's never operated, apparently?

 

[RhysHand]

Sorry Phil, but Rhys did make such a claim on twitter, which was later retracted when he was challenged.

However such discussions are not for this thread and I believe such disputes do need to be kept private.
I do believe Rhys is gaining more professionalism but at the end of the day it's his brand to improve or damage as he wishes and should be left to it. Let his customers decide rather than an Internet forum. It's those customers who are paying money to the business that's opinions matter.

Let me pick up on that, I freely commented that I was involved in the livery and graphics of the silver and red design which is a livery used in their Wessex Bus operations. I didn't say I designed the hallmark branding at all.

What it's got to do with 'CityFox Bus or CityFox Taxis' I have no idea but I thought I'd help people out before they start telling more lies about me.

 

[Robertj21a]

TheGrandWazoo: I think your analysis is absolutely superb and sums up all the relevant points in a nutshell, including (and perhaps especially) the bits that make for uncomfortable reading.

For me, the interesting point of debate is the extent to which CityFox and Rhys (and to a lesser extent me) are motivated by a desire to be taken seriously by the rest of the industry. Clearly, CityFox is on a journey and among the destinations that need to be taken as a given are professionalism and compliance, and the issues there are very neatly summed up in your post.

However, Rhys is a maverick and always will be, and he is not motivated by wanting to be seen as "one of the chaps" (for want of a better expression). He wants CityFox to be different and innovative, whatever that ends up looking like. I talked a week ago about entrepreneurialism and why that can create unease among inhabitants of forums such as this, because enthusiasts of the industry in its existing form tend to like things that conform neatly to existing models, whereas Rhys is looking for the opportunities that no-one else has found. Of course anyone who sets out to be different puts themselves on a pedestal, and when you've already handed people enough bullets you're going to get shot at.

But I can't accept that that means it's okay to bog down every discussion about the organisation and its activities with personal abuse, false accusations and reheated comments from four years ago when these have frankly been done to death. I sort of think we maybe agree on that, and perhaps it's a forlorn hope that we will ever get clear of that, but it just impedes reasonable discussion and understanding of the Group's current activities, and what motivates its.

While I'm appreciative of your kind comments about me personally, and I certainly do cherish the many strong relationships I hold within the industry, I have for some time been concerned that the industry is complacent and too wedded to existing ways of working in the face of radically changing mobility patterns. That's not to denigrate the innovators (Transdev, Reading etc) who are doing great work in their own way, but there are not enough of them and even then I worry it's all too much about tweaking the existing product rather than looking at the world from a different angle.

That's why I'm excited that so much of the last year for me has been spent learning about different modes of transport and exploring ways to integrate them and - while there is a long way to go and the issues you highlight are very real - I very much hope that CityFox (and others) will find its eventual success in not being afraid to challenge the status quo.

For me, that's where the real debate lies.

Phil,

Good to hear from you again, and I'm sure we all appreciate that you are still prepared to come on here to explain things and correct misunderstandings.

Speaking for just me personally, I have no significant concerns with the current bus/taxi/logo/tweets debate but I do share concerns that some on here may have with Rhys over more historic issues, seemingly relating to his time in Devon and Cornwall. A public forum is not the place to seek to resolve such issues and, presumably, that is why the concerns will remain.

Anyway, good luck to you in your new involvement with different modes of transport - Onward and upward !

 

[nesw]

Let me pick up on that, I freely commented that I was involved in the livery and graphics of the silver and red design which is a livery used in their Wessex Bus operations. I didn't say I designed the hallmark branding at all.

What it's got to do with 'CityFox Bus or CityFox Taxis' I have no idea but I thought I'd help people out before they start telling more lies about me.

Thank you. I agree with Grand Wazoo, there does appear to be a pattern here and I think that response clearly demonstrates this.

As I've previously stated, I have no personal interests in the day to day running of Rhys/Phil's activities but I feel it's been relevant to highlight the recent developments on this forum and elsewhere.

I have tried to avoid referring to any personal traits however, on a final note for now, I think saying that 'they start telling more lies about me' is untrue and an attempt to be seen as the victim. It's almost comical how the obvious points have been ignored by Phil/Rhys and I'm somewhat bewildered. Then again, the news is full of people who have been drawn in by serial fantasists.

Time to move on for now.

 

[jammy36]

I think TheGrandWazoo's post sums up why even those of us (armchair forum analysts) who want to give "TeamFox" the benefit of the doubt remain sceptical. As TGW says it's not just about saying the right things it's about positive actions. These are what will change perceptions here (whether the perceptions of us forum lurkers matter is another issue entirely).

I agree that bringing problems of the past up is neither helpful or productive and people should move on. I think those that raise these past issues up are also letting CityFox of the hook a little bit, as it enables them to side-step some of the more 'probing' questions about some more recent activities. For example issues around plagiarism of competitor's websites and marketing campaigns - these are things that are happening now. There may be an innocent explanation, but at the moment they're not being given, instead hiding by wise words of a journey and claims of a personal vendetta.

Some of the claims on the Splendour website seem 'grandiose' at best. Indeed some might be argued to fall the test of being "legal, decent, honest and truthful" which any marketing should be. Some of the claims appear to have the potential to unfairly mislead a customer as to the company's abilities and resourcing.

He wants CityFox to be different and innovative, whatever that ends up looking like.

As long as it doesn't look like plagiarised content that's fine, but plagiarism and being different seem a bit of a dichotomy... which is where we currently sit.

 

[Olympian]

Some of the claims on the Splendour website seem 'grandiose' at best. Indeed some might be argued to fall the test of being "legal, decent, honest and truthful" which any marketing should be. Some of the claims appear to have the potential to unfairly mislead a customer as to the company's abilities and resourcing.

Totally agree. For a company with only a licensed operating centre in North Wales that no-one has reported seeing any vehicles at, and no known coaches owned, it seems misleading to boast online about having so many clients, a fleet of 3, 5 employees, being family run, its own sales team and maintenance staff, and two regional operating centres. As with the Christmas bus service it's also a long way to come from Porthmadog to Bristol if that's where these imaginary coaches are maintained at to comply with its PCV operating licence, but still make a profit.

 

[RhysHand]

Totally agree. For a company with only a licensed operating centre in North Wales that no-one has reported seeing any vehicles at, and no known coaches owned, it seems misleading to boast online about having so many clients, a fleet of 3, 5 employees, being family run, its own sales team and maintenance staff, and two regional operating centres. As with the Christmas bus service it's also a long way to come from Porthmadog to Bristol if that's where these imaginary coaches are maintained at to comply with its PCV operating licence, but still make a profit.

Think Phil has already covered all of theses points more than once. At risk of going (as usual) over old ground.

 

[nesw]

Think Phil has already covered all of theses points more than once. At risk of going (as usual) over old ground.

I think you'll find that he's avoided addressing these points. They're hardly 'old ground.'

It might be wise to draw on some of the suggestions given, thereby avoiding similar occasions in future. It's free advise that many would pay handsomely to receive. It's not negative or 'lies', it's reality. One needs to make sure that there's some substance behind claims before going public wth them, unless one enjoys seeing things fall apart. Everything that is posted on the internet is there forever more and that applies to all of us. Of course debating on forums is one thing but you need to remember that there are other relevant bodies who are very much keeping an eye on things.

It's commendable to be a maverick and to try new ideas in transport provision but there are ways of going about it that protects the reputations of the directors and the company. In my opinion, people are starting to see what is really happening and that can only be a good thing.

 

[Olympian]

Think Phil has already covered all of theses points more than once. At risk of going (as usual) over old ground.

No, he confirmed that you had a PCV operator licence in North Wales that wasn't currently being used but then tried to substantiate your website claims by saying that you'd bring in coaches and drivers if there was a need. When it was pointed out that your website was therefore misleading as it states that you already had the vehicles, staff, clients etc. and you were instead effectively currently just a coach broker it all went quiet.

 

[GRAHAMJ]

Can we agree that Splendour have not operated any buses or coaches ? Is that fair ?

 

[0B00]

Prior to the sale of the business to Cityfox Group two vehicles were owned but never used.

One was a very tidy 16 seat LDV Convoy Max - YX03HSF acquired from Connaught PSV (dealer) in Yorkshire. Whilst in immaculate condition cosmetically it was found to be in poor order in the chassis area so was sold without use for breaking for it's engine and gearbox.

A second vehicle was BU05CAE, an Iveco 16 seater which came from Murgatroyd Travel of Harrogate. This was prepared for test but at that point the owner of the business decided to pursue other interests and the company was offered for sale. BU05CAE was sold to an operator in Stoke On Trent - Stanways I believe, before the company sale to Cityfox.

What happened after the sale I cannot say as I don't know Mr Hand or Mr Stockley.

Hope that is of interest.

 

[Olympian]

Prior to the sale of the business to Cityfox Group two vehicles were owned but never used.

One was a very tidy 16 seat LDV Convoy Max - YX03HSF acquired from Connaught PSV (dealer) in Yorkshire. Whilst in immaculate condition cosmetically it was found to be in poor order in the chassis area so was sold without use for breaking for it's engine and gearbox.

A second vehicle was BU05CAE, an Iveco 16 seater which came from Murgatroyd Travel of Harrogate. This was prepared for test but at that point the owner of the business decided to pursue other interests and the company was offered for sale. BU05CAE was sold to an operator in Stoke On Trent - Stanways I believe, before the company sale to Cityfox.

What happened after the sale I cannot say as I don't know Mr Hand or Mr Stockley.

Hope that is of interest.

Thanks, yes that helps and also confirms that even if those vehicles had been operated Snowdonia would only have had a reputation of any sort in the 16-seater market and certainly not in providing 49 seat executive coaches as currently portrayed. As it happens it sounds like Snowdonia didn't even get as far as operating any 16-seaters so no operational reputation of any sort would have been established, despite the fanciful claims currently being made under the Splendour name.

Interestingly, the former owner of Snowdonia is still listed as the nominated transport manager on its PSV operator licence, now being "used" by Splendour and CityFox. Also Phil is also still listed on it as being a director of the company despite resigning his directorship at the end of 2016. Hopefully this is just the DVSA website being out of date rather than the company failing in its legal requirement to notify the Traffic Commissioner of any such changes within 28 days.

 

[Olympian]

Can we agree that Splendour have not operated any buses or coaches ? Is that fair ?

Yes I think it is. Apart from the Christmas and Boxing Day bus service recently operated as "CityFox" in Bristol (though under a service registration that is still listed by DVSA as not having being effective until 13/1/17), evidence so far suggests that PG1143169 Snowdonia Travel Ltd hasn't ever operated any other buses or coaches under the Snowdonia, CityFox or Splendour names. The vehicle used at Christmas is now untaxed so that means they don't currently have any operational vehicles whatsoever, which matches what Phil has told us but not what is portrayed by the various websites.

 

[D60]

Thanks, yes that helps and also confirms that even if those vehicles had been operated Snowdonia would only have had a reputation of any sort in the 16-seater market and certainly not in providing 49 seat executive coaches as currently portrayed. As it happens it sounds like Snowdonia didn't even get as far as operating any 16-seaters so no operational reputation of any sort would have been established, despite the fanciful claims currently being made under the Splendour name.

Interestingly, the former owner of Snowdonia is still listed as the nominated transport manager on its PSV operator licence, now being "used" by Splendour and CityFox. Also Phil is also still listed on it as being a director of the company despite resigning his directorship at the end of 2016. Hopefully this is just the DVSA website being out of date rather than the company failing in its legal requirement to notify the Traffic Commissioner of any such changes within 28 days.

This may require further confirmation.. and may not even be particularly relevant... but according to 'publicly available online resources' (sorry can't post links on this phone), a person of the same name, and seemingly the same address, as the previous owner of Snowdonia Travel (still listed on their current details, see above?), was made bankrupt at the beginning of December 2016..

It appears also (from publicly available online resources, sorry can't post links) that a person of the same name may previously have been involved with RJ's of Wem, and RML2418 Ltd, a couple of businesses linked to GHA...

None of this may have any relevance to the current situation... but others have asked about Snowdonia Travel..

 

[Olympian]

This may require further confirmation.. and may not even be particularly relevant... but according to 'publicly available online resources' (sorry can't post links on this phone), a person of the same name, and seemingly the same address, as the previous owner of Snowdonia Travel (still listed on their current details, see above?), was made bankrupt at the beginning of December 2016..

It appears also (from publicly available online resources, sorry can't post links) that a person of the same name may previously have been involved with RJ's of Wem, and RML2418 Ltd, a couple of businesses linked to GHA...

None of this may have any relevance to the current situation... but others have asked about Snowdonia Travel..

I'd not realised about that situation and link to the other companies but having checked online resources it does indeed appear to all be correct. If I were Messrs Hand and Stockley I'd be doing everything I could to disassociate my company from him.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Personally I do find the Splendour thing very dishonest. I am greatly in opposition to the "services offered by our trusted partners" type things, as if I wanted to buy from that company I'd choose them directly. But this doesn't even do that (there's nothing wrong with being a coach broker provided you are transparent about what you are and who you use), it near enough claims they are operating the coaches themselves, which as I say is dishonest.

 

[PhilStockley]

If it helps move things along, I think there are three points that have been established beyond reasonable doubt:

1) Snowdonia Travel Ltd has had an 'o' licence for around three years but never engaged in substantive PSV operation
2) The company currently has one vehicle which is not being used
3) The website doesn't accurately reflect this (and as an aside I understand is being worked on for updating imminently)

Therefore continuing attempts to "prove" any of the above are - while entertaining - fairly superfluous.

What worries me more is...

Operator Licence now being "used" by

A quick check of Companies House will reveal that Snowdonia is wholly owned by CityFox Group Ltd and therefore so is the 'O' licence. If your use of the word "used" is intended to infer that something underhand is going on, that moves the discussion into much more sinister territory. Opinions about what the Group does and how they do it are one thing, unsupported allegations of illegality are quite another.

On related matters, I'm told that my resignation and also a change of TM have been notified to the TC but it does often take them a few weeks to update the websites so that's just a matter of time.

Finally, if we're now trying to imply that because Rhys bought a company from someone who once sold a different company to someone who subsequently got themselves into trouble, this must mean that Rhys must somehow be connected to those people, that does seem to me pretty tenuous! Interestingly though, without trying too hard I can think of an exactly comparable situation involving at least one of the major PLCs, so at least Rhys will find himself in good company!

But if helps put people's minds at rest, I can safely say that I've never met, spoken to or had any dealings with the principals of GHA and I'm pretty sure the same is true for Rhys, and I doubt there is any part of the GHA business model that the Group would be looking to replicate.

 

[nesw]

I understand that Snowdonia was advertised for sale on a coach related Facebook group & RH expressed an interest.

With regard to the O licence, I'm sure the licence was only granted just prior to the company being sold. I'm sure others will be able to investigate.

Finally, on the subject of legality, what's the position on drawing up documents to claim that a company has been taken over? Two of these notices are still live on websites.

 

[RhysHand]

I understand that Snowdonia was advertised for sale on a coach related Facebook group & RH expressed an interest.

With regard to the O licence, I'm sure the licence was only granted just prior to the company being sold. I'm sure others will be able to investigate.

Finally, on the subject of legality, what's the position on drawing up documents to claim that a company has been taken over? Two of these notices are still live on websites.

What documents and notices are you referring to?

 

[nesw]

What documents and notices are you referring to?

It's been mentioned many times before & it's the acquisition of Bath Spa Taxis & Plymouth Taxi.

 

[RhysHand]

It's been mentioned many times before & it's the acquisition of Bath Spa Taxis & Plymouth Taxi.

Yes, it may of been mentioned many times before, unlike yourself, I'm not glued to this forum.

And as mentioned before by Phil, it was assets and the right to operate that was acquired NOT the Ltd company.

We have never said we acquired Plymouth Taxis. Again, what that's got to do with CityFox Bus I don't know.

 

[swifty]

..Others on the list may have been owned by the MD of CityFox, but have not seen any use since their previous operator ceased or for the last two the date that they claimed they were acquired. These are listed below

N203 NNJ
N204 NNJ
N205 NNJ
N215 NNJ

A Dart SLF Mk1 in a similar livery to Bristol Greyhound was parked in front of the gate at Eastville Coaches this afternoon.