Christmas Day operation

[43066]

Is limited Christmas service practical or desirable?

Possibly Boxing Day would justify it, and indeed one does operate, at least in parts of the south east. Makes sense, as many large shops are open for the sales.

I chose a career path where I am required to work unsocial hours, but granted an early finish on 24th and 31st of December and a day off on 25th, 26th Dec and 1st Jan.

Indeed. Just because you work shifts doesn’t necessarily mean you’ve signed up to work any hours your employer might decide, despite what some on here seem to think! It’s bad enough that we are expected to use AL on Xmas and Boxing Day.

Personally I’d need a four figure sum to even consider working Boxing Day, so 3 or 4 * normal rate. It would be possible to get enough volunteers if this kind of rate was offered. I’d be interested to know what kind of incentive TfL and LU offer to Boxing Day crews (who AIUI are all volunteers).

 

[philosopher]

I have no complaints about what I do shift wise 363 days (364 leap years) but my contract has always stated I do not have to work on the 25th/26th December and that’s never going to change for me.

Again it’s not a good idea to rely on volunteers as at anytime you could promise something that may not be delivered. Also for Christmas Day it’s going to have to be triple time, possibly a bonus, and a guaranteed extra day in lieu to make it worthwhile for most traincrew. It’s simply a non-starter for a large proportion of routes in the UK.

The high staffing requirements and probable lack of demand mean operating rail services on Christmas day is likely not viable. In addition it would disrupt the engineering work that typically goes on at this time.

Running a basic bus service should be more feasible as it would not require as many staff. However with buses, a key issue is that on Christmas day is that many of the journeys taken on this day, such as people visiting relatives for Christmas lunch tend not to be served by buses that well. Running bus services to and from hospitals I would have thought would make the most sense.

 

[43066]

The question is the cost of getting staff to agree to work it.

Almost certainly still worth it, even if staff are paid several times the usual rate. It wouldn’t take *that* many people tapping into LU to cover the cost of a few hundred drivers/line controllers/platform staff manning the service. That’s before you consider any wider economic benefits.

 

[MisterT]

In The Netherlands we run a regular Sunday service with Christmas.
In terms of staffing, we have the rule that everyone works every other year. This year, I had to work both days, next year, I have the days off. Same goes for New Year's day, Easter and pentecost. People with other religions can switch these for their own holidays.

 

[HSTEd]

Almost certainly still worth it, even if staff are paid several times the usual rate. It wouldn’t take *that* many people tapping into LU to cover the cost of a few hundred drivers/line controllers/platform staff manning the service. That’s before you consider any wider economic benefits.

The London Underground would likely get hit hard by the staffing requirements to operate its underground stations, before we consider the tube drivers necessary to run even a skeletal service. You'd have to get hundreds of staff to agree before you can do much at all.

Not sure there are many economic benefits given almost all drivers of economic activity are closed on Christmas day. You'd have to justify it on social benefits, primarily related to people travelling to see relatives.

 

[dk1]

In The Netherlands we run a regular Sunday service with Christmas.
In terms of staffing, we have the rule that everyone works every other year. This year, I had to work both days, next year, I have the days off. Same goes for New Year's day, Easter and pentecost. People with other religions can switch these for their own holidays.

I’m not sure why we compare the UK with other countries. Do they compare there’s with us on other things/days? When in Rome & all that.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Looking at transit-related social media there's a lot of disbelief from non-UK countries that most UK public transport completely shuts down on Christmas Day. What are your thoughts on this matter? Is limited Christmas service practical or desirable?

I'm not sure Christmas Day service is worthwhile. It's one day a year when pretty much everyone is off work (taxis can handle the tiny number of people who are working and don't drive and can't cycle there) and most people stay local, the roads are typically empty.

Boxing Day on the other hand is more like Easter Sunday but with a potentially higher level of long distance travel, so should have a full Sunday service. Shop opening is similarly low on both but shops aren't the only reason to travel.

 

[43066]

The London Underground would likely get hit hard by the staffing requirements to operate its underground stations, before we consider the tube drivers necessary to run even a skeletal service. You'd have to get hundreds of staff to agree before you can do much at all.

Yet there is a reasonably extensive tube service operating today, and the trains that are running (both on LU and NR) are reportedly full and standing. I think you *drastically* underestimate how busy LU actually is on (for example) New Year’s Day, which is broadly equivalent to Boxing Day for many.

 

[WAB]

I'm not sure Christmas Day service is worthwhile. It's one day a year when pretty much everyone is off work (taxis can handle the tiny number of people who are working and don't drive and can't cycle there) and most people stay local, the roads are typically empty.

Boxing Day on the other hand is more like Easter Sunday but with a potentially higher level of long distance travel, so should have a full Sunday service. Shop opening is similarly low on both but shops aren't the only reason to travel.

The demand is spread too thin on Christmas Day and I don't think many routes would be viable on their own. E.g. an hourly service on the sixes from Ripley to Derby would be all well and good, but that's not going to help anyone travelling to/from, say Wirksworth. London's tube network plus a few Heathrow buses you may get away with if you ran trains every 15 mins and only had station staff where legally required, but it would still be a bit of a gamble.

Boxing Day on the other hand should at least be a Sunday service for buses, and a skeleton rail service subject to engineering works. I don't see why New Years Day should be treated by the buses as anything except a normal bank holiday IMO.

 

[Ianigsy]

As someone who works in public transport, I find it more frustrating that there are continued calls to operate later services on Christmas Eve and New Year's Eve, along with services on Christmas Day, Boxing Day and New Year's Day, often from people who themselves finish work a few days before Christmas and don't start back again until the new year.

OK, however my father’s last permanent job was as an accounts clerk in a building firm, which meant that he had to take the week that the firm closed down out of his annual leave. If Christmas Day fell midweek, that could easily become a fortnight because nobody would come in on the Monday and Tuesday, leaving him with little more than two weeks to book across the rest of the year.

We probably do fetishise Christmas for its own sake in this country more than is healthy, and then wonder why we end up stressed and disappointed that our Christmas ends up looking more like the Royle Family than the Royal Family. Unfortunately, the Reformation and the Industrial Revolution stripped a lot of traditional local holidays out of the calendar.

I do wonder however if things would be different if we gave followers of other faiths the legal right to take their own festivals instead.

 

[6Gman]

Judging by the crowds in central London on Christmas Day there would certainly be plenty of takers for an underground service.

There were a few years when private companies ran bus services in London on Christmas day and they were quite busy.

But presumably not busy enough for the private companies to continue running on Christmas Day?

 

[Topological]

Like many, Christmas and Boxing Day become part of a long shut down period of annual leave for me. That is fine because actually our contracts allow enough for other days.

Saying that someone "chose" a job because of a particular holiday pattern is strange though. I chose my job because I have a passion for it. The holiday pattern could be the total opposite of what I want, but the passion for the job covers that. It is like the political argument that people who voted for the government voted for a particular unpopular policy; they did not, they voted because on balance the government was the closest to their overall feelings.

My take is that there is little justification for a Christmas day rail service. A coach service would seem the more obvious place to start if travel between cities is really needed. I took a coach today, and whilst I would like a train, I understand that work needs doing and the staff do need a break.

All that said the Heathrow Express is running.

 

[deltic]

But presumably not busy enough for the private companies to continue running on Christmas Day?

I would imagine the logistics are now to difficult as they would have to set up their own fare collection system given people are no longer used to paying cash.

 

[bluenoxid]

Speaking to Europeans, it is interesting to see how and when they do things like exchanging presents. Some countries do it in early December, whilst others do it on Christmas Eve.

How many have Boxing Day or 2nd January as a bank holiday?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Boxing Day is a Church of England thing. Most countries that have two bank holidays have 24th and 25th.

 

[deltic]

Boxing Day is a Church of England thing. Most countries that have two bank holidays have 24th and 25th.

Boxing day was when servants received a Christmas box ie money from their employer and got the day off. Not sure the Church of England had anything to do with it. 26 Dec is St Stephen's day which is the name of the Irish holiday

 

[Bletchleyite]

Boxing day was when servants received a Christmas box ie money from their employer and got the day off. Not sure the Church of England had anything to do with it. 26 Dec is St Stephen's day which is the name of the Irish holiday

There's no definitive derivation. Another one is that it was the day when alms boxes in churches were distributed.

 

[30907]

Boxing Day is a Church of England thing.

The name, maybe - but as the 2nd Day of Christmas it is almost universally a holiday in "Western Christian" Europe.

Most countries that have two bank holidays have 24th and 25th.

None do, with respect. CZ, SK, FI and the Baltics have all 3; FR, ES, PT have only 1 (per ERT).

 

[dk1]

These and many other social media comments fill my heart with joy that we do things are own way here in Great Britain.

 

[Hadders]

I made a journey this morning by car from Enfield to Burton on Trent. The M1 was extremely busy between the M25 and J13, hardshoulder was in use as a running lane on the Mk1 smart motorway section but it was still stop start. My thought was with this level of traffic a train service is justified.

During thr course of the journey I saw a number of National Express and Megabus coaches. I was surprised to see them operating but there appeared to be next to no-one on board. Seems it was a waste of time running the coach services.

So, on balance I'm not sure there is justification for a full train service on Boxing Day.

 

[jagardner1984]

Yes I think the last post hits the nail - personally as someone who generally works through it all I'd be glad of the service, but ...

Walking in to work yesterday (since the rail service I normally take was off) .... you could have heard a pin drop. Few cars on the road, few taxis waiting at ranks, few cyclists, few people on foot.

I'm sure there will be pockets of busy activity people can point to, perhaps later in the day, perhaps near some festive lights etc.

But generally. It is still broadly a shut down for all but lifeline services (hospitals etc).

When tied with the absolute nonsense of public holidays (4 of the 9 annual holidays occur within an 8 day period here in Scotland), it is perhaps clear why people are so keen to hang on to the shutdown.

Personally I felt a good balance was achieved in one place I worked where public holidays were working days (still closed on Christmas Day but open the rest) but you received an additional 8 days of annual leave, to take as you wished. That doesn't work for everyone of course. But I quite liked it.

 

[Class 317]

Not sure Christmas day operation would be worthwhile outside of maybe a limited service to airports. Boxing day however I think would be more justified on both a social and economic basis.

I was working yesterday and needed to visit family today and was pleasantly surprised to see a service from Victoria to Brighton operating. I was surprised how busy it was as well at mid morning from Victoria. Probably around 50% to 60% full or there abouts with a good turnover of people at each stop.

I definitely think a limited service similar to what Southern provide starting around 8:00 to around 21:00 would have reasonable demand on many similar routes. Obviously it would be easier to implement in areas with larger signalling centres etc.

 

[Carlisle]

As we have less public holidays than most other countries, and a famine of any after the end of August, then it's not really a surprise that the two together Christmas/Boxing Day in December are craved for!

Totally agree, I visited Israel a while ago & they have more public holidays plus early closing the day before each one .

 

[Falcon1200]

These and many other social media comments fill my heart with joy that we do things are own way here in Great Britain.

Same here! I have always been perfectly happy with the way we treat the Christmas holidays, even when I had to work them. I did go out on Christmas Day, to pick up elderly relatives, however it was a journey impossible by public transport anyway, and the roads were extremely quiet.

 

[Bald Rick]

Which raises the question as to why it's seen as having a solid business case in so many other countries...

It isn’t just about a business case but a social one too. People can’t pretend the UK is somehow exceptional in this regard.

See my earlier post. Christmas here is different to most other countries, at least in my anecdotal experience.

Shops, entertainment, lesiure facilities just do not open here*. The need to travel on Christmas Day is much reduced (as is Boxing Day, given how empty the roads were yesterday).

*except some in central London.

Very interesting. Genuine question: as there was no public transport, where did they come from? Tourists staying over Christmas and finding nothing to do?

London has a lot of toursts staying for Christmas.

 

[lisamerlot]

With a storm approaching is it worth travelling long distance by rail this week? I was talking to my friends about going to London or Birmingham shopping for the day. London is closer and direct from Portsmouth Harbour. Is it worth the risk? I have christmas money to spend

 

[AlterEgo]

See my earlier post. Christmas here is different to most other countries, at least in my anecdotal experience.

Case of the tail wagging the dog. “People don’t go anywhere for the two days public transport doesn’t run” - not hugely surprising. Run the trains and Christmas would change - for the better.

 

[Bald Rick]

Case of the tail wagging the dog. “People don’t go anywhere for the two days public transport doesn’t run” - not hugely surprising. Run the trains and Christmas would change - for the better.

I disagree. The whole country shuts down, even in places where there are no trains. If you look at the traffic on Christmas Day you’ll see that most people simply arent travelling by any mode.

 

[Falcon1200]

Run the trains and Christmas would change - for the better.

So Christmas Day would just become a day like any other? No thanks, I prefer this one day a year to remain special. And I expect many who would then be required to work on Christmas Day would think the same!

 

[dk1]

Case of the tail wagging the dog. “People don’t go anywhere for the two days public transport doesn’t run” - not hugely surprising. Run the trains and Christmas would change - for the better.

No thanks. I’ll stick with my traditional Christmas and Boxing Day off work.