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China surveillance balloons

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brad465

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This week as many know has been dominated by a row between the US and China over a balloon believed to have been taking pictures, etc., over the US state of Montana.

This has now gone further and another balloon has just been confirmed as being shot down:


The US has shot down a suspected Chinese spy balloon that has flown across America in the past week.
Three airports were closed and airspace was shut down off the South Carolina coast as US military planes targeted the object over the Atlantic Ocean.
According to the AP news agency, footage showed the balloon falling to the sea after a small explosion.
US President Joe Biden faced intense pressure to shoot it down since it first appeared across the US last week.
Tracking website Flightradar24 showed US Air Force and Coastguard aircraft operating in the skies between Wilmington, North Carolina, and Myrtle Beach.
The coast guard had also advised mariners to leave the area due to military operations "that present a significant hazard," the Associated Press reports.
The news agency, quoting unnamed officials, said President Biden had given the go ahead to bring the balloon down over the Atlantic Ocean, where debris can be retrieved.
The balloon's arrival over the US comes amid fraying tensions between Washington and Beijing, with Secretary of State Antony Blinken calling off a trip to Beijing over the matter.
Mr Blinken said the "surveillance" balloon's presence was "an irresponsible act". However, China - which says it is a weather ship blown astray - has urged "cool-headed" handling of the dispute.
In another development, the US reported a second Chinese balloon floating over Latin America on Friday.
China, which has expressed regret over the incident, said on Saturday it had "never violated the territory and airspace of any sovereign country".
In a statement, its foreign ministry played down the cancellation of Mr Blinken's visit and said neither side had formally announced such a plan.
It added that Beijing "would not accept any groundless conjecture or hype" and accused "some politicians and media in the United States" of using the incident "as a pretext to attack and smear China."
According to US officials, the balloon floated over Alaska and Canada before appearing over the US state of Montana, which is home to a number of sensitive nuclear missile sites.
The incident angered top US officials, with Mr Blinken saying he had told Beijing the balloon's presence was "a clear violation of US sovereignty and international law" and "an irresponsible act" on the eve of his visit to China.
America's top diplomat had been set to visit Beijing from 5 to 6 February to hold talks on a wide range of issues, including security, Taiwan and Covid-19. It would have been the first high-level US-China meeting there in years.
But plans faltered after US defence officials announced they were tracking a giant surveillance balloon over the US on Thursday.
While the Pentagon said the balloon had been "travelling at an altitude well above commercial air traffic" and did "not present a military or physical threat to people on the ground", its presence has sparked outrage.
On Friday, China finally acknowledged the balloon was its property, saying it was a civilian airship used for meteorological research, which deviated from its route because of bad weather.
And late on Friday, the Pentagon said a second Chinese spy balloon had been spotted - this time over Latin America with reported sightings over Costa Rica and Venezuela.
China has so far made no public comments on the reported second balloon.
 
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adc82140

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This week as many know has been dominated by a row between the US and China over a balloon believed to have been taking pictures, etc., over the US state of Montana.

This has now gone further and another balloon has just been confirmed as being shot down:

This is the same balloon they've been tracking all week.
 

birchesgreen

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I did think it was funny when they called it a "spy balloon", considering everyone knew where it was it can't have been very good.
 

lyndhurst25

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I don’t buy the ”taking pictures” story. How do they steer he balloon to fly over what they want to take pictures of?
 

Darandio

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I don’t buy the ”taking pictures” story. How do they steer he balloon to fly over what they want to take pictures of?

Altitude changes to intercept wind currents like any other balloon. Not infallible but fairly effective.
 

Peter Sarf

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I will be amazed if these are not weather balloons. Given the very cold weather in China I suspect some balloons have behaved differently. Possibly got higher than normal or failed to eventually burst which I think is what normally happens. So perhaps they have stayed airborne long enough to get across the Pacific.

I am surprised they have not been shot down if its so important - or would that spoil the excuse for not talking to China. Shooting them down could be interesting to see what has been recorded (pressure, temperature etc or pics of missile silos).
 

Peter Mugridge

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There was an intention to shoot it down earlier this week but it was deemed too risky as it was over populated areas; they appear to have done it as soon as it crossed over the Atlantic coast.

The wreckage has landed in quite shallow water, just over 14 metres deep, and attempts are being made to recover as much as possible.
 

TreacleMiller

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If these were rogue weather balloons China itself would have shot them down over the sea long before they reached anywhere near the US.

They've pushed their luck to see what the response would be in a very low risk way to all involved.

Everyone knew what it was and where it was going.
 

birchesgreen

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Interestingly the only casualties on US soil by enemy action in WW2 was from a Japanese fire bomb balloon.
 

Runningaround

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Satellites will see anything a balloon can so what would be the point of one?
Although at last someone's found the ball after Harry Kanes penalty, some thought it was the green comet seen earlier this week
 

brad465

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Next development will be interesting:


A "high-altitude object" has been shot down over Alaska in the past hour, the White House has said.
Spokesman John Kirby said the object was "the size of a small car" and was over a sparsely populated area at the time.
President Joe Biden took the decision to shoot down the object, which was of unknown origin, Mr Kirby said.
It comes after the US shot down a Chinese balloon over its territorial waters last Saturday.
Speaking at the White House on Friday, Mr Kirby explained that the object over Alaska was travelling at 40,000ft and could have posed a threat to civilian aircraft.
He added that its debris field was "much, much smaller" than the balloon shot down last week off the coast of South Carolina.
Intelligence officials became aware of the object on Thursday evening, Mr Kirby said.
He said a fighter jet had approached the object and assessed it was unmanned, and this information was available to Mr Biden when he made his decision.
Officials have not yet determined whether the object was involved in surveillance, and Mr Kirby corrected a reporter who referred to it as a balloon.
 

yorksrob

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I wonder if any will pass near Blighty.

Give the RAF something to shoot down :)
 

Darandio

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I wonder if any will pass near Blighty.

Give the RAF something to shoot down :)

They probably already have done previously. The US had said there was a network of them that had been navigating the world, they missed previous incursions.
 

WizCastro197

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Speaking at the White House on Friday, Mr Kirby explained that the object over Alaska was travelling at 40,000ft (12,000m) and posed a "reasonable threat" to civilian aircraft.

How many civilian aircraft are flying around northern (eastern) Alaska? There aren't even proper roads up there let alone airstrips to take off/land. Flightradar shows some light aircraft flying over Northern Alaska (not affected area), which suggests there are some, but even they can't real 40,000 feet?

This plane has also done its fair few laps around the affected area:

 
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Darandio

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How many civilian aircraft are flying around northern Alaska? There aren't even roads up there let alone airstrips to take off/land. Flightradar shows some aircraft flying over Northern Alaska (not affected area), which suggests there are some, but even they can't real 40,000 feet?

There are Asia-Europe traffic routes right in the vicinity, these operate at 35000-40000ft. When you have an unknown object up there then it is a reasonable threat.
 

GRALISTAIR

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How many civilian aircraft are flying around northern (eastern) Alaska? There aren't even proper roads up there let alone airstrips to take off/land. Flightradar shows some light aircraft flying over Northern Alaska (not affected area), which suggests there are some, but even they can't real 40,000 feet?
More than you might think. During the Cold War to avoid Siberian etc airspace a huge number of aircraft flew over Alaska. After the invasion of Ukrqaine this has been even more of the case. Also Anchorage is one of the busiest cargo airports in the world.

You are correct about seaplanes and other small aircraft - they rarely get above 10,000 feet never mind 40,000.

There are Asia-Europe traffic routes right in the vicinity, these operate at 35000-40000ft. When you have an unknown object up there then it is a reasonable threat.
Exactly
 
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