China queries

[Daniel_P]

Hello everyone,

I hope you're well. I'm in the very early stages of planning a trip to China - taking advantage of the 10 day transit policy and the expansion which covers Hong Kong West Kowloon as an entry / exit point, likely using the Beijing - HK overnight sleeper at the end of the trip - but I have a couple of queries as Chinese trains are something of a minefield!

- Is there a definitive list of routes which are worked by 350kph Fuxing type trains during the day, please? (I know Fuxing covers all sorts of different models, a bit like how IET covers the 80x fleet) From my research and educated guess leads me towards anything that's a G-class service?

- It would be good to sample older services as well as the high-speed stuff: does anyone have any suggestions for loco-hauled trains / routes, please? Bonus points if the route is particularly scenic.

- A final long shot, but if there are any preserved steam services to work into the trip that would be mega, too, though my research hasn't come up with anything thus far!

It'll be my first time in the country, by the way. Thanks!

 

[doc7austin]

I hope you're well. I'm in the very early stages of planning a trip to China - taking advantage of the 10 day transit policy and the expansion which covers Hong Kong West Kowloon as an entry / exit point,

This transit policy keeps changing, esp. which borders between provinces you can cross or not. You need to check that beforehand, esp. if you plan to cross several province borders on long-running high-speed trains.

likely using the Beijing - HK overnight sleeper at the end of the trip

That is an excellent choice. Note, that this train does not run daily, it runs only from Friday to Monday.

- Is there a definitive list of routes which are worked by 350kph Fuxing type trains during the day, please? (I know Fuxing covers all sorts of different models, a bit like how IET covers the 80x fleet) From my research and educated guess leads me towards anything that's a G-class service?

Just because a high-speed train type is certified to run 350kph, it doesn't mean it will that speed. Many high-speed lines are congested, so there is often simply no path available to run 350kph continuously. I recommend you to install the official China Railway app 12306 (english version). You can sort for travel time. The trains with the shortest travel usually reach 350kph on 350kph-capable lines.
From Beijing the lines to Shenyang, Wuhan, and Shanghai allow for 350 kph operations, but note the congestion remark I made above.

- It would be good to sample older services as well as the high-speed stuff: does anyone have any reconsolidations for loco-hauled trains / routes, please?

You want to start your journey in Hong Kong. Where do you plan to exit China again ?
If you need to return back to Hong Kong, I' recommend to use train Z13 - a classic loco-hauled night train between Beijing and Guangzhou, which also offers deluxe soft sleeper cabins (with ensuite bathroom and just 2 beds).
Basically you can travel by G high-speed train in one direction and a classic Z loco-hauled night train on the way back.

Bonus points if the route is particularly scenic.

If you start from Hong Kong and are looking for scenic routes, I'd advise to travel in direction Guilin/Guiyang, Kunming, Dali - and not to aim for Beijing.

 

[dutchflyer]

Agree with the latter-for certain.
Also: as you note this will be 1st time China: be in for big ´culture shock´'and DO prepare- an awful lot of things over there do not work as you may expect them. F.e. read a few pages on sites like TA=TripAdvisor about what practical problems -in general - tourists from the west encounter there. Even doing payments now-cash is largely vanished- can be cumbersome.
Have been to mainland China myself 4-5 times in the past, except very 1st time on my own, and also 2 times to Taiwan. My major aim were the around 15 or so -then- trolleybussystems, the 4 cities with trams were done on an organised tour 1st time, coming off Siberia in the Trans-Sib. But thats all long ago.
Oh-and the many new hi-speed lines/trains: after 1 -2 its utter boring IMHO. But you cannot avoid it anymore if you want to travel around.
Recent info/status of cities with metro or tram/light rail can be found on the site urbanrail.
For the remaining trolleybuses: trolleymotion, click on the listings to get more info.
Now I wonder myself what would be the best site for travel by train now in China - seat61 seems a bit too superficial for this and also not too much updated.

 

[superalbs]

I understand that if you are accessing China on a visa-free regime, then you CANNOT travel between provinces, and must remain within the same one from entry to exit, though this can cover a very large area (even around 2hr of travel time on high-speed trains). By the rules in place when I visited in 2024, going from Beijing to Hong Kong was an absolute 'NO' on these rules, but they may have changed.

If you're after locos, then:
G, D, C train types are all units
Z, T, Y, K, and number train types are all hauled

 

[doc7austin]

@Daniel_P
There is plenty of train adventures available just in Guangdong Province.
If you give us an indication where do you arrive and depart from China (incl. HK) and how long you want to stay (obviously 10 days or less), we can give you more ideas.

 

[nwales58]

Don’t know if this is the latest, but it is official from gov.cn. Despite the extension to 10 days you are still limited to the province of entry/exit and in some provinces restricted to certain cities too.

China's visa-free transit policy fully relaxed and optimized

english.www.gov.cn

 

[sh24]

I understand that if you are accessing China on a visa-free regime, then you CANNOT travel between provinces, and must remain within the same one from entry to exit, though this can cover a very large area (even around 2hr of travel time on high-speed trains). By the rules in place when I visited in 2024, going from Beijing to Hong Kong was an absolute 'NO' on these rules, but they may have changed.

If you're after locos, then:
G, D, C train types are all units
Z, T, Y, K, and number train types are all hauled

That is my understanding as well.

@Daniel_P If you have seen something different stated pleased double and triple check before booking anything! Would echo the advice about researching the practical nature of a trip in the PRC. It could easily trip you up.

 

[nwales58]

Also are you clear that it has to be a China stop on a trip carrying on further, at least that was the rule when it was 72 hour? UK-China-Australia would qualify but UK-China-UK would not.

 

[superalbs]

Also are you clear that it has to be a China stop on a trip carrying on further, at least that was the rule when it was 72 hour? UK-China-Australia would qualify but UK-China-UK would not.

I believe Hong Kong can be counted as a third country for this purpose.

 

[bb21]

It's almost impossible to do decent or quirky railway trips on "transit" visas. The highspeed headline workings such as G21/G28, vertically arranged sleepers D901/D902, and steam workings on the metre gauge lines are either long-distance workings or in inaccessible areas when transiting from the UK but may be possible to/from SE Asia. Intra-province local travel very rarely gets up to 300+kph.

The oldest carriages in service are the 25B class of which only a very small handful remain, but mostly exist outside main destinations accessible to people from the UK. Some of the most scenic local journeys such as 6063/6064 upgraded to 25G coaches in recent timetable updates.

I think your itinerary would most likely be shaped by your planned flights which would dictate what is possible and what not.

 

[vjm1975]

I understand that if you are accessing China on a visa-free regime, then you CANNOT travel between provinces, and must remain within the same one from entry to exit, though this can cover a very large area (even around 2hr of travel time on high-speed trains). By the rules in place when I visited in 2024, going from Beijing to Hong Kong was an absolute 'NO' on these rules, but they may have changed.

If you're after locos, then:
G, D, C train types are all units
Z, T, Y, K, and number train types are all hauled

You can now. Was changed earlier this year. And entry/exit via Hong Kong using rail was added in November. However, as mentioned, visa free transit is for heading to or from a third country and Uk-China-Uk would not be permitted. With using Hong Kong as an entry point, not sure that would count as a third country in this instance.
A stop off on way back anywhere would suffice though.

The visa free transit is a bit of a minefield though with lots of conflicting info, with a lot still out of date it changes so often.

Used visa free transit in July, arriving in Beijing to visit Universal Beijing and travelled Beijing to Shanghai by train, which did hit 350km, and a few days later departed Shanghai for Osaka.

Consider using first class as it’s a much nicer experience. The trains are very busy and standard class is 2+3 seating. The stations seem very chaotic, but oddly quite efficient. Your passport is your ticket.

Once I got to grips with WePay/Alipay, payment for anything was fine. The whole process did seem a bit of a faff compared to simple contactless but it was easy enough to use. Can also set up a transport ticket too with WePay for Beijing/Shanghai and other areas so simply a case of scanning barcode in and out at stations to pay, which is dirt cheap.

Their metro systems are clean and efficient but again, very busy. Be warned everyone plays music/videos out loud and makes calls loudly on speaker phone so need a way to tune out.

 

[Daniel_P]

You can now. Was changed earlier this year. And entry/exit via Hong Kong using rail was added in November. However, as mentioned, visa free transit is for heading to or from a third country and Uk-China-Uk would not be permitted. With using Hong Kong as an entry point, not sure that would count as a third country in this instance.
A stop off on way back anywhere would suffice though.

Thanks for everyone's inputs. Just so we're all on the same page (as a few people have been quoting out of date information), this page lists the places and provinces people can travel to. https://www.china-briefing.com/news...-transit-policy-for-foreigners-who-can-apply/

There isn't anything saying you can't travel between provinces.

As @vjm1975 said, entry / exit using Hong Kong via rail was added earlier this month, which is the inspiration for the trip. It counts as a third country (and in any case I wouldn't fly back to the UK directly).

Note, that this train does not run daily, it runs only from Friday to Monday.

I'm already aware of this.

Just because a high-speed train type is certified to run 350kph, it doesn't mean it will that speed. Many high-speed lines are congested, so there is often simply no path available to run 350kph continuously. I recommend you to install the official China Railway app 12306 (english version). You can sort for travel time. The trains with the shortest travel usually reach 350kph on 350kph-capable lines. From Beijing the lines to Shenyang, Wuhan, and Shanghai allow for 350 kph operations, but note the congestion remark I made above.

Thanks for these pointers, this is useful information. I wasn't aware 12306 has an app (I've looked on the website but it is quite hard to use on a PC and I've been concentrating on using Trip.com for my research thus far.)

You want to start your journey in Hong Kong. Where do you plan to exit China again ?
If you need to return back to Hong Kong, I' recommend to use train Z13 - a classic loco-hauled night train between Beijing and Guangzhou, which also offers deluxe soft sleeper cabins (with ensuite bathroom and just 2 beds).
Basically you can travel by G high-speed train in one direction and a classic Z loco-hauled night train on the way back.

If you start from Hong Kong and are looking for scenic routes, I'd advise to travel in direction Guilin/Guiyang, Kunming, Dali - and not to aim for Beijing.

No, as mentioned in my OP I'll use the high-speed at the end of the trip. I'll likely fly into Shanghai (not directly from the UK) and then out from HK. What I do between then is up in the air. I'll have a look into the scenic routes you suggest.

It's almost impossible to do decent or quirky railway trips on "transit" visas. The highspeed headline workings such as G21/G28, vertically arranged sleepers D901/D902, and steam workings on the metre gauge lines are either long-distance workings or in inaccessible areas when transiting from the UK but may be possible to/from SE Asia. Intra-province local travel very rarely gets up to 300+kph.

The oldest carriages in service are the 25B class of which only a very small handful remain, but mostly exist outside main destinations accessible to people from the UK. Some of the most scenic local journeys such as 6063/6064 upgraded to 25G coaches in recent timetable updates.

I think your itinerary would most likely be shaped by your planned flights which would dictate what is possible and what not.

This is really useful information - thank you.

 

[signed]

I hope you're well. I'm in the very early stages of planning a trip to China - taking advantage of the 10 day transit policy and the expansion which covers Hong Kong West Kowloon as an entry / exit point, likely using the Beijing - HK overnight sleeper at the end of the trip - but I have a couple of queries as Chinese trains are something of a minefield!

You won't be able to do UK-HK-China-HK-UK under a Xh transit policy

Doing UK-HK-China-UK (or the reverse) would end up being perfectly fine (since HK is a separate immigration zone from China)

EDIT: just spotted your edit too late

 

[Tester]

Very much out of date now, but my website www.chinatt.org is still useful for an overview of how China's railways tick.

 

[KK2109]

- Is there a definitive list of routes which are worked by 350kph Fuxing type trains during the day, please? (I know Fuxing covers all sorts of different models, a bit like how IET covers the 80x fleet) From my research and educated guess leads me towards anything that's a G-class service?

Currently there are 8 HSR lines capable of 350kph running:
1. Beijing~Shanghai
2. Beijing~Tianjin
3. Beijing~Zhangjiakou
4. Beijing~Shenyang
5. Chengdu~Chongqing
6. Beijing~Guangzhou (350kph south of Wuhan)
7. Guizhou~Nanning
8. Shanghai~Kunming (350kph between Hangzhou~Changsha)
However, as @doc7austin mentioned, only selected express trains are scheduled to run at 350kph, mainly due to lack of path and suitable stock.
For example between Beijing~Shanghai, there are usually 2 G-高铁 (Highspeed) services per hour, only the fast services (G1~G28) are pathed at 350kph.

No, as mentioned in my OP I'll use the high-speed at the end of the trip. I'll likely fly into Shanghai (not directly from the UK) and then out from HK. What I do between then is up in the air. I'll have a look into the scenic routes you suggest.

There are definitely enough 350kph services to/from Shanghai, but be aware that some C-城际 (Intercity) and D-动车 (Multiple unit) train types are operated by CR200J push-pull sets, the trailer cars are similar to the 25T carriages on conventional loco-haul services.

 

[Tinginys]

Everything related to train speeds was already said by others but I think it's important to reiterate that you absolutely must have AliPay or WePay with payment option enabled if you want to do anything at all in there. China, at least in 1st tier cities is pretty much a cashless society and foreign (or any for that matter) bank cards won't be accepted in some places. Not because they're backward but because we're backward with our ancient bank cards, not to mention cash. China has generally became much easier to get around for foreigners than, say, 10-15 or even 5 years ago. I think there was some kind of recent nationwide political push to make the country more accommodating to foreign tourists so things are much easier now in China if you're a foreigner which also includes the 'transit' and other visa-free related initiatives. Just do get AliPay/WePay and make sure it works because you will be having a hard time there if it won't.

 

[notverydeep]

- A final long shot, but if there are any preserved steam services to work into the trip that would be mega, too, though my research hasn't come up with anything thus far!

It'll be my first time in the country, by the way. Thanks!

Hoping this isn't too late, but there is what is effectively a heritage operation (narrow gauge) in Sichuan. This is the Jaiyang Coal Railway, located quite near the city of Leshan (where there is a very famous giant statue of Buddha carved into a cliff overlooking the confluence of the Dadu and Min Rivers). The line is generally referred to as the Shibanxi Railway by western rail enthusiasts and was a late survivor of 'real' steam operation and has gradually morphed into a heritage venue and is definitely on the domestic tourist trail in China.

While those who were regular visitors to China for the last years of 'real' steam might moan about its lack of authenticity (and higher prices) since those days, it is a great little railway and a very scenic and interesting area well worth a visit. There are many trip reports on this site: https://www.internationalsteam.co.uk/syc/line/sichuan-shibanxi.htm plus sketch maps and photographs, there are also various China tourism websites that have some information about it. I have posted a picture of one of the C2 locos hauling a passenger train on the line during my last visit in 2009. The line is not connected to the mainline network in China and is located in Qianwei County - here is the location of the start of the lne: Shixi Station. There are buses from Leshan which has a China Rail station.

The downside is that it is a very long way from a holiday centred in Beijing, Shanghai or Guilin, even using China's excellent high speed rail system. The appears to be a daily high speed train from Beijing West station G1591 at 08:26 which gets to Leshan at 18:44 (the return is at 10:22 from Leshan and gets to Beijing at 20:35). You can even book on line. That would have been jolly useful on my various trips to China between 1992 and 2009!

 

[DM352]

Everything related to train speeds was already said by others but I think it's important to reiterate that you absolutely must have AliPay or WePay with payment option enabled if you want to do anything at all in there. China, at least in 1st tier cities is pretty much a cashless society and foreign (or any for that matter) bank cards won't be accepted in some places. Not because they're backward but because we're backward with our ancient bank cards, not to mention cash. China has generally became much easier to get around for foreigners than, say, 10-15 or even 5 years ago. I think there was some kind of recent nationwide political push to make the country more accommodating to foreign tourists so things are much easier now in China if you're a foreigner which also includes the 'transit' and other visa-free related initiatives. Just do get AliPay/WePay and make sure it works because you will be having a hard time there if it won't.

Agree on Alipay and Wechat for payment. Took some getting used to as first payment attempt at a subway got an error but it sorted itself out afters but had some cash as backup just in case.

Booking trains seemed to be trip.com to reserve in advance or 12306 which I used with the downside being seats released about 15 days. Could pay with credit card. Both sites showed fast and slow trains.

Transit without visa for up to 10 days. Did HK to Beijing but the immigration needed proof of onward travel to separate country/terrarory so took longer than a bog standard visa but had everything printed out. Rules change as it was recent extra ports like HK Kowloon were added for the 10 day transit without visa policy which was useful otherwise easier to just get a visa.

 

[Tinginys]

Agree on Alipay and Wechat for payment. Took some getting used to as first payment attempt at a subway got an error but it sorted itself out afters but had some cash as backup just in case.

Booking trains seemed to be trip.com to reserve in advance or 12306 which I used with the downside being seats released about 15 days. Could pay with credit card. Both sites showed fast and slow trains.

Transit without visa for up to 10 days. Did HK to Beijing but the immigration needed proof of onward travel to separate country/terrarory so took longer than a bog standard visa but had everything printed out. Rules change as it was recent extra ports like HK Kowloon were added for the 10 day transit without visa policy which was useful otherwise easier to just get a visa.

Most EU (and other countries') nationals can go to China visa-free these days I believe. BUt even those who do need a visa can still use 'transit' visa-free policy to their advantage.

 

[DM352]

Most EU (and other countries') nationals can go to China visa-free these days I believe. BUt even those who do need a visa can still use 'transit' visa-free policy to their advantage.

Agree, all I can say is 10 day transit without visa from my recent trip requires a bit more proof of onward travel to a different country hence "transit " along with daily itinerary details. With the extra hastle if I go again, will get a visa unless it becomes visa free for UK. As observed, rules can quickly change hopefully for the better.

 

[Tinginys]

Agree, all I can say is 10 day transit without visa from my recent trip requires a bit more proof of onward travel to a different country hence "transit " along with daily itinerary details. With the extra hastle if I go again, will get a visa unless it becomes visa free for UK. As observed, rules can quickly change hopefully for the better.

I didn't realise UK nationals are not part of visa-free regime. That's a bit surprising. Anyway, yes, paperwork for Chinese visa or even the 'transit' visa-free thingie must be in order, so if the rules say you need to have your outbound ticket or other proof of departure and hotel bookings then that's exactly what you need to have. Either way, I wish Daniel_P a good trip and actually look forward to my own trip to China next year. Those HSR trains they have there are more addictive than opioid drugs

 

[vjm1975]

Agree, all I can say is 10 day transit without visa from my recent trip requires a bit more proof of onward travel to a different country hence "transit " along with daily itinerary details. With the extra hastle if I go again, will get a visa unless it becomes visa free for UK. As observed, rules can quickly change hopefully for the better.

I didn't really find it any hassle really. Only asked for onward travel details, though I had everything else printed off just in case. Whilst the process was thorough, it was all fairly relaxed. From arrival at the Transit Visa Desk to getting land side was about 20 minutes, this includes waiting around 10 minutes in queue with about 5 groups in front of us. Disembarking our plane around 06:30, I was a Universal Studios Beijing for 07:30.

Once I done the first WeChat payment, which was a bit of a faff as I had flight mode on for some reason so had not data connection, it was all quite straight forward after that. Just felt a bit more time consuming that using Apple Pay though. Could also use it to add a card for transit for use on Metro/buses too, but had to set it up again for Shanghai though it only takes a few minutes

 

[Tinginys]

I didn't really find it any hassle really. Only asked for onward travel details, though I had everything else printed off just in case. Whilst the process was thorough, it was all fairly relaxed. From arrival at the Transit Visa Desk to getting land side was about 20 minutes, this includes waiting around 10 minutes in queue with about 5 groups in front of us. Disembarking our plane around 06:30, I was a Universal Studios Beijing for 07:30.

Once I done the first WeChat payment, which was a bit of a faff as I had flight mode on for some reason so had not data connection, it was all quite straight forward after that. Just felt a bit more time consuming that using Apple Pay though. Could also use it to add a card for transit for use on Metro/buses too, but had to set it up again for Shanghai though it only takes a few minutes

Mind you it's not just about payments but integration of pretty much all kinds of electronic services from ordering McDonalds or KFC to using rideshares and museum tickets, all within one super-app. I think Elon Musk was touting this idea a few years ago, obviously after having seen those Chinese apps. Another thing that I like about it is that it doesn't actually need a bank card to work. For foreigners it's probably the only way to make it work but locals can just top it up from their bank account eliminating Mastercard/Visa and similar card vendors (alongside their commission) from the payments altogether. Wish something like this existed across Europe. Some EU countries do have some card-less payment apps but not at the level of integration and sophistication as WePay/Alipay.

 

[Mainline421]

Everything related to train speeds was already said by others but I think it's important to reiterate that you absolutely must have AliPay or WePay with payment option enabled if you want to do anything at all in there. China, at least in 1st tier cities is pretty much a cashless society and foreign (or any for that matter) bank cards won't be accepted in some places. Not because they're backward but because we're backward with our ancient bank cards, not to mention cash. China has generally became much easier to get around for foreigners than, say, 10-15 or even 5 years ago. I think there was some kind of recent nationwide political push to make the country more accommodating to foreign tourists so things are much easier now in China if you're a foreigner which also includes the 'transit' and other visa-free related initiatives. Just do get AliPay/WePay and make sure it works because you will be having a hard time there if it won't.

Everywhere in China will accept cash without exception, I'm told this is by law. Western cards won't anywhere except ATMs, but you can easily get by without AliPay or WePay.

 

[Tinginys]

Everywhere in China will accept cash without exception, I'm told this is by law. Western cards won't anywhere except ATMs, but you can easily get by without AliPay or WePay.

In theory yes, but in practice using cash will be a hassle. For example, buying a metro ticket will be difficult because only a handful of machines would accept cash. Ordering food at fast foods will be a hassle etc. Things are set around app payments there, cash is more of an afterthought by now. In 1st tier cities at least, not sure about rural areas.