CHILTERN - Why does Princes Risborough have a poor service from the North?

[Peter749]

I'm looking at going to Princes Risborough from Manchester on either a Friday or Saturday morning for the Diesel Gala and NRE routes me via Euston.

One morning option is XC to Banbury for Chiltern to Haddenham & Thame Parkway for a train back to Princes Risborough
Fastest journey is 05.45 from Manchester changing at Nuneaton, Leamington Spa, Haddenham & Thame Parkway to Princes Risborough

The daytime service has an hourly train from MYB to Oxford and MYB to Aylesbury and v.v with no services from Banbury or Birmingham calling between 06.50 and 16.41
Going North there is nothing between 06.26 and 17.05

Has it always been this poor?

Peter

 

[MerlinRail 804]

I'm looking at going to Princes Risborough from Manchester on either a Friday or Saturday morning for the Diesel Gala and NRE routes me via Euston.

One morning option is XC to Banbury for Chiltern to Haddenham & Thame Parkway for a train back to Princes Risborough
Fastest journey is 05.45 from Manchester changing at Nuneaton, Leamington Spa, Haddenham & Thame Parkway to Princes Risborough

The daytime service has an hourly train from MYB to Oxford and MYB to Aylesbury and v.v with no services from Banbury or Birmingham calling between 06.50 and 16.41
Going North there is nothing between 06.26 and 17.05

Has it always been this poor?

Peter

Another option could be to go XC to Oxford and then Chiltern from there to Haddenham. I think there’s only trains towards Birmingham regularly on Sundays.

 

[Farigiraf]

Since Chiltern stopped competing with GWR on the London-Oxford market (focusing on Bicester Village instead), the Marylebone-Oxford has become the local service north of High Wycombe. The loss of the Aylesbury-Marylebone (via High Wycombe) all-day hourly service (a COVID cut) means many of the local calls have moved over to the Oxford service.

I presume the lack of northbound trains is because Chiltern don't want to slow down the Birmingham services with extra calls, and there probably isn't that much demand anyway.
COVID killed off a lot of Chiltern routes and the previous frequency has still not been restored on most lines. One victim was an hourly Marylebone to Banbury semifast service which called at all stations north of Beaconsfield except Saunderton. Now it runs just 4-5 times a day in each direction. I think if any service could be restored once the introduction of Mk5A trains releases enough turbos, it's this one.

 

[800002]

There is generally an hourly connection from the Birmingham train to the Oxford train, at Haddenham, to achieve Princess Risborough.

There probably isn't a big enough market to warrant direct trains to everywhere, for everyone, so certain journeys need to be accomplished by effective and efficient use of connections.

The Birmingham train is generally Banbury, Bicester, Haddenham, Wycombe, Marylebone with connections to go southwards for intermediate stations at HDM and HWY.

 

[NSE]

I’ve long since given up trying to memorise the Chiltern timetable. I don’t use them very often but when I do go for bash, I find everything is different to how I remember it from last time.

 

[Peter749]

Another option could be to go XC to Oxford and then Chiltern from there to Haddenham. I think there’s only trains towards Birmingham regularly on Sundays.

Except the 07.25 from Man gets in to Oxford at 10.17 and the non-connection is 10.19 so I would have to wait until 10.49 to Princes Risborough at 11.26
If I change at Banbury off the 07.25 at 09.59 for the 10.06 to Haddenham at 10.34 then 10.57 (10.19 from Oxford) arr PRR at 10.57

Even then a 10.57 arrival for the Diesel Gala is a bit late so I might go earlier

 

[LittleRedTrain]

It is a pain if you want to go to Aylesbury from stations north of Bicester.

It's often quicker to get off at Haddenham and get the bus!

 

[Forty29]

I'm looking at going to Princes Risborough from Manchester on either a Friday or Saturday morning for the Diesel Gala and NRE routes me via Euston.

One morning option is XC to Banbury for Chiltern to Haddenham & Thame Parkway for a train back to Pri Risborough
Fastest journey is 05.45 from Manchester changing at Nuneaton, Leamington Spa, Haddenham & Thame Parkway to Princes Risborough

The daytime service has an hourly train from MYB to Oxford and MYB to Aylesbury and v.v with no services from Banbury or Birmingham calling between 06.50 and 16.41
Going North there is nothing between 06.26 and 17.05

Has it always been this poor?

Peter

Didn't realise the service was that bad.
Used to travel between Bicester and London several years ago and all services always stopped at PR. It always seems to me the Oxford services seem busier(judging by the amount of time the barriers are down at Bicester)!
Hopefully improvements will come with the new rolling stock and next timetable.

 

[Ian Hardy]

Since Chiltern funded the restored UP Fast at Princes Risborough, they obviously want to get their money's worth out of that investment so they put more trains on that bit of track rather than using the platform loop

 

[NCT]

Another example of poor connections due to lack of a strict takt. To me the Chiltern Birminghams and Oxfords should both be strictly half-hourly, with potential variations at only Princes Risborough and Haddenham. I think there are two options:

- Birminghams and Oxfords stop 1tph each at each of Princes Risborough and Haddenham. If they are somewhat flighted then both stations get approximately half hourly services to London (hopefully no worse than 20/40 apart). Each of Birmingham and Oxford gets a 1tph direct service to each of Princes Risborough and Haddenham. The downside is you can't travel by rail between Princes Risborough and Haddenham

- Only the Oxfords call at both Princes Risborough and Haddenham at strict 30-minute intervals. Birmingham to these stations would involve a double back at High Wycombe. With 2tph meeting 2tph there is a reasonable chance that a reasonable connection time can be offered. The option has the advantage that travel by rail between Princes Risborough and Haddenham is possible.

 

[Nippy]

It is a pain if you want to go to Aylesbury from stations north of Bicester.

It's often quicker to get off at Haddenham and get the bus!

Yeah I had to do this the other day due to disruption.

 

[cle]

Another example of poor connections due to lack of a strict takt. To me the Chiltern Birminghams and Oxfords should both be strictly half-hourly, with potential variations at only Princes Risborough and Haddenham. I think there are two options:

- Birminghams and Oxfords stop 1tph each at each of Princes Risborough and Haddenham. If they are somewhat flighted then both stations get approximately half hourly services to London (hopefully no worse than 20/40 apart). Each of Birmingham and Oxford gets a 1tph direct service to each of Princes Risborough and Haddenham. The downside is you can't travel by rail between Princes Risborough and Haddenham

- Only the Oxfords call at both Princes Risborough and Haddenham at strict 30-minute intervals. Birmingham to these stations would involve a double back at High Wycombe. With 2tph meeting 2tph there is a reasonable chance that a reasonable connection time can be offered. The option has the advantage that travel by rail between Princes Risborough and Haddenham is possible.

There is also the semi-fast Banbury service which could be the one which links the two. I would suspect demand north (towards Birmingham but maybe not to it) would be met by that.

Commuting into Bicester and Oxford is popular and growing since the curve opened - I would go with your second scenario.