Chiltern tender for 20 - 70 units

[Snow1964]

Chiltern has a new published award notice, published 29th Oct
No idea who has won, as it is very vague

The wording says unnamed rather than discontinued/cancelled etc

Low Emissions Rolling Stock (New or Converted) for Chiltern Railways​

Award Detail​

1	Unnamed (None) Reference: 034970-2024-1

Low Emissions Rolling Stock (New or Converted) for Chiltern Railways [Award]

The Chiltern Railway Company Limited (Chiltern), further to notices 000-026866 and 000-026867, is no... A Contract Award Notice by Chiltern Railway.

bidstats.uk

 

[Trainbike46]

Does this mean it was awarded to noone, or that it was awarded to a party that isn't publicly named?

 

[InTheEastMids]

Gover

Chiltern has a new published award notice, published 29th Oct
No idea who has won, as it is very vague

The wording says unnamed rather than discontinued/cancelled etc

Low Emissions Rolling Stock (New or Converted) for Chiltern Railways [Award]

The Chiltern Railway Company Limited (Chiltern), further to notices 000-026866 and 000-026867, is no... A Contract Award Notice by Chiltern Railway.

bidstats.uk

Govt Find a Tender Service suggests that no award has been made

https://www.find-tender.service.gov.uk/Notice/034970-2024#award_contract-1

Section V. Award of contract​

A contract/lot is awarded: No

five.1) Information on non-awardV.1) Information on non-award​

The contract/lot is not awarded

Other reasons (discontinuation of procedure)

 

[Danfilm007]

Gover


Govt Find a Tender Service suggests that no award has been made

https://www.find-tender.service.gov.uk/Notice/034970-2024#award_contract-1

Back to the drawing board then? Potentially to tie in with the Northern contract?

 

[Snow1964]

Back to the drawing board then? Potentially to tie in with the Northern contract?

When the DfT updated its procurement pipeline spreadsheet (29th Oct, same day as Chiltern non-award published), it completely disappeared from DfT sheet, the row for Chiltern procurement is no longer there.

So appears to be not back to drawing board, but no plans in foreseeable future.

Future commercial contracts for DfT and partners

Listing of upcoming Department for Transport (DfT) and associated bodies commercial contracts – known as the commercial pipeline – for which bidders may apply.

www.gov.uk

Either Chiltern is expected to make do unchanged, or it is getting a transfer of someone elses cast offs, without any modification to be low emission.

Clearly the local media in Buckinghamshire hasn't noticed because it has all happened rather quietly, stealth approach, as if a media blackout on the news of newer/extra trains apparently cancelled.

 

[InTheEastMids]

Clearly the local media in Buckinghamshire hasn't noticed

I'm not sure any of the railway media has noticed either, to be fair, certainly nothing obviously in the Xwitter feeds of the better-known ones I looked at.

 

[12LDA28C]

When the DfT updated its procurement pipeline spreadsheet (29th Oct, same day as Chiltern non-award published), it completely disappeared from DfT sheet, the row for Chiltern procurement is no longer there.

So appears to be not back to drawing board, but no plans in foreseeable future.

Future commercial contracts for DfT and partners

Listing of upcoming Department for Transport (DfT) and associated bodies commercial contracts – known as the commercial pipeline – for which bidders may apply.

www.gov.uk

Either Chiltern is expected to make do unchanged, or it is getting a transfer of someone elses cast offs, without any modification to be low emission.

Clearly the local media in Buckinghamshire hasn't noticed because it has all happened rather quietly, stealth approach, as if a media blackout on the news of newer/extra trains apparently cancelled.

Since it has been reported in some quarters that Chiltern is about to reach the next step in procuring replacement stock for its Mk3s (rumoured of course to be 68s and Mk5s), perhaps the option has been agreed in principle to request to take the whole ex-TPE fleet which could lead to a cascade of LHCS onto services formerly operated by DMUs. This may mean that 168s, a fleet currently undergoing major refurbishment can be used to replace some of the ageing 165s which would make the replacement of the Class 165 fleet by brand new stock rather less urgent... just a theory of course.

 

[172007]

Since it has been reported in some quarters that Chiltern is about to reach the next step in procuring replacement stock for its Mk3s (rumoured of course to be 68s and Mk5s), perhaps the option has been agreed in principle to request to take the whole ex-TPE fleet which could lead to a cascade of LHCS onto services formerly operated by DMUs. This may mean that 168s, a fleet currently undergoing major refurbishment can be used to replace some of the ageing 165s which would make the replacement of the Class 165 fleet by brand new stock rather less urgent... just a theory of course.

Would seem logical.

Just the nagging issue over 68's and noise. I keep banging on but if there was a solution to this issue surely a 68 would be floating around sounding somewhat muted somewhere bit not a hint (well my ears have played trucks as I am sure one of the silver 68's has for a few weeks sound muffled tbh)

 

[Energy]

Since it has been reported in some quarters that Chiltern is about to reach the next step in procuring replacement stock for its Mk3s (rumoured of course to be 68s and Mk5s), perhaps the option has been agreed in principle to request to take the whole ex-TPE fleet which could lead to a cascade of LHCS onto services formerly operated by DMUs.

I wouldn’t be so certain on the Mk5As. The Mk5As are off lease so extending the lease and transferring isn’t an option. Id be very doubtful that this would meet the requirements for a direct award so there would need to be a procurement for Chiltern to get the stock.

Chiltern has stated their preference for discontinuous electrification, and presumably the use of battery units which was a separate tender.

Meanwhile EWR have announced that it will use discontinuous electrification.

 

[12LDA28C]

I wouldn’t be so certain on the Mk5As. The Mk5As are off lease so extending the lease and transferring isn’t an option. Id be very doubtful that this would meet the requirements for a direct award so there would need to be a procurement for Chiltern to get the stock.

Chiltern has stated their preference for discontinuous electrification, and presumably the use of battery units which was a separate tender.

Meanwhile EWR have announced that it will use discontinuous electrification.

I didn’t suggest there would be a direct award, merely that a plan may have been formulated to cascade 168s to replace some 165s if and when 68s and Mk5s arrive which may be at some point in 2025. This would reduce the pressure to replace the 165s as a pool of spares could be created which as I understand it is one of the problems with the ageing 165 fleet - a lack of spare components, especially electronics.

 

[Energy]

I didn’t suggest there would be a direct award, merely that a plan may have been formulated to cascade 168s to replace some 165s if and when 68s and Mk5s arrive which may be at some point in 2025. This would reduce the pressure to replace the 165s as a pool of spares could be created which as I understand it is one of the problems with the ageing 165 fleet - a lack of spare components, especially electronics.

I agree with the cascade, my point is that Chiltern getting the 68/Mk5As would require either a procurement (which didn't get awarded) or a direct award to Beacon Rail (unlikely).

 

[12LDA28C]

I agree with the cascade, my point is that Chiltern getting the 68/Mk5As would require either a procurement (which didn't get awarded) or a direct award to Beacon Rail (unlikely).

The procurement process for a cascaded fleet to replace the Mk3s is already well underway and ongoing.

 

[Energy]

The procurement process for a cascaded fleet to replace the Mk3s is already well underway and ongoing.

I'm confused. Cascading stock from elsewhere that is already on lease is possible without a procurement. The Mk5As are off-lease, operating them at Chiltern would require a new lease contract which would have to be through a procurement or meet the terms of a direct award.

It would be really weird to direct award Beacon Rail a contract for the 68/Mk5As rather than awarding it through the procurement.

Information correct but there is a separate tender for existing stock.

 

[CyrusWuff]

I'm confused. Cascading stock from elsewhere that is already on lease is possible without a procurement. The Mk5As are off-lease, operating them at Chiltern would require a new lease contract which would have to be through a procurement or meet the terms of a direct award.

It would be really weird to direct award Beacon Rail a contract for the 68/Mk5As rather than awarding it through the procurement.

The tender for replacement of the Mk3s is still live, with no award (or lack of award) having been announced as yet.

 

[Mgameing123]

Would seem logical.

Just the nagging issue over 68's and noise. I keep banging on but if there was a solution to this issue surely a 68 would be floating around sounding somewhat muted somewhere bit not a hint (well my ears have played trucks as I am sure one of the silver 68's has for a few weeks sound muffled tbh)

Why is noise so big of an issue? If you live next to the railway what do you expect? It being all quiet?

 

[JamesT]

Why is noise so big of an issue? If you live next to the railway what do you expect? It being all quiet?

There have been several threads on this issue previously, but the Class 68s are much noisier than the rest of Chiltern’s fleet.

 

[Mgameing123]

There have been several threads on this issue previously, but the Class 68s are much noisier than the rest of Chiltern’s fleet.

Still it's their fault for living next to the railway.

 

[Energy]

The tender for replacement of the Mk3s is still live, with no award (or lack of award) having been announced as yet.

Ahh thank you, not sure why but it wasn’t showing on BidStats.

 

[12LDA28C]

Still it's their fault for living next to the railway.

Many might agree but when you're an MP with Marylebone in your constituency and local residents are making official complaints about noise from Class 68 locos, you have to be seen to be doing something about it. This issue has already been discussed at length on this forum.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Nov 2024 ==



The latest Green Signals podcast features an interview with Chiltern's MD which includes an update on current plans for modernisation of the Chiltern fleet and infrastructure. The Chiltern section starts at around 24:30

Wales train crash RAIB investigation initial findings & Euston station progress? – Green Signals

www.greensignals.org

 

[172007]

Why is noise so big of an issue? If you live next to the railway what do you expect? It being all

Why is noise so big of an issue? If you live next to the railway what do you expect? It being all quiet?

Because noise pollution has a real impact on life and whilst I agree that if you live near a Railway you expect noise what is different in this case is that when the 68's arrived they were considerably noisier than the 67's they replaced and all other trains hence the issues. You would complain if you loved next to a commercial airport with moce 737's then the Raf park a squadron lf Typhoons their taking off in full afterburner a the time.

 

[AlterEgo]

Still it's their fault for living next to the railway.

There was a case in Saltburn where someone had the 68 idling for long times a few yards outside her house. The 68s are extremely noisy and disruptive and cause lots of vibration even when idling.

If you want railways to expand, be welcomed, and be successful, you cannot suggest that it can behave in a way which ruins people's quality of life or depresses the property values of its neighbours wherever it runs.

 

[Snow1964]

Chiltern has published another award notice 14 November

• 1 buyer​

  • Chiltern Railway Sunderland

1 supplier​

• Unnamed None

Description​

The Chiltern Railway Company Limited ("Chiltern"), is seeking proposals from established rolling stock owners for the leasing and associated maintenance services of between 25 and 70 of their existing vehicles to operate intercity and regional services on the Chiltern Main line. The vehicles are expected to have the following characteristics: • Comprised of either self-powered multiple units or coaching vehicles that can be hauled by locomotive; • Be able to be utilised in fixed formations of between 5 and 6 passenger vehicles or submultiples of; • Capable of operating at 100mph; • (in relation to driving vehicles) fitted with the TPWS Mark 4 protection system (this is a requirement of the Chiltern Main Line); • Have power operated centrally-locked doors; • Compliant with accessibility legislation; • Compatible with the existing infrastructure on the Chiltern Main Line; • Offer passengers a high-level of on-board comfort including full HVAC systems, on-board CCTV and real-time passenger information; • Deliver a reduction in ambient noise compared to the rolling stock that operates Chiltern's existing London to Birmingham services (Class 68 locomotive and MKIII coaches). • Any diesel-powered solutions shall be compatible with alternative fuels, such as HVO, from the service introduction date. The above is not an exhaustive list of Chiltern's requirements and further information will be provided in the procurement documentation. The rolling stock proposed shall be available to support a driver training programme within 2024 and available to enter passenger service by early 2025. The vehicles (including provision of a locomotive where a locomotive and coaches option is proposed) will be leased by Chiltern will an expected lease duration of between 3 and 12 years. Interested parties should register their interest to participate via the email addresses listed above. This is an advertised private procurement, which shall be conducted in accordance with the terms of Chiltern's procurement policy.

Total Quantity or Scope​

Chiltern operate passenger rail services over lines within the Chilterns and Midlands areas of England under a National Rail Contract agreed with the UK's Secretary of State for Transport. Chiltern is seeking to invite expressions of interest and proposals for the turnkey supply and leasing of existing rolling stock and associated maintenance services. Interested parties should respond to arrivarailtenders@arriva.co.uk with copy to phil.andrews@chilternrailways.co.uk to register their interest in taking part and to receive further information. A Supplier Selection Questionnaire might be used to evaluate financial and technical suitability in advance of the tender documentation. Responders should have the available rolling stock to meet the technical requirements within the planned timescales, and the technical competence to contract and support the associated maintenance services. Partaking in this procurement process may not result in any contract award and suppliers partake at their own cost and risk.

Award Detail​

1	Unnamed (None) Reference: 036820-2024-1

​

Replacement (Existing) Rolling Stock for Chiltern Railways [Award]

The Chiltern Railway Company Limited ("Chiltern"), is seeking proposals from established rolling sto... A Contract Award Notice by Chiltern Railway.

bidstats.uk

 

[InTheEastMids]

Chiltern has published another award notice 14 November

Replacement (Existing) Rolling Stock for Chiltern Railways [Award]

The Chiltern Railway Company Limited ("Chiltern"), is seeking proposals from established rolling sto... A Contract Award Notice by Chiltern Railway.

bidstats.uk

Below is the link on gov.uk

https://www.find-tender.service.gov.uk/Notice/036820-2024?origin=SearchResults&p=1

Section V. Award of contract​

A contract/lot is awarded: No

five.1) Information on non-awardV.1) Information on non-award​

The contract/lot is not awarded

Other reasons (discontinuation of procedure)

 

[The exile]

Well, publishing an award notice on 14/11/24 that requires driver training to start in 2024 seems a bit tight.

 

[Snow1964]

Maybe I am getting confused, for much of 2024 Chiltern had 2 open tenders, one for new stock, one for used/refurbished stock. Now had 2 cancellations.

Does that mean Chiltern has abandoned idea of newer stock, or is there an active plan C, a third option.

 

[The exile]

Maybe I am getting confused, for much of 2024 Chiltern had 2 open tenders, one for new stock, one for used/refurbished stock. Now had 2 cancellations.

Does that mean Chiltern has abandoned idea of newer stock, or is there an active plan C, a third option.

Does the “not awarded” in Section V mean “not yet” or “never”?

 

[Snow1964]

Does the “not awarded” in Section V mean “not yet” or “never”?

There was not a published award date, so 'not yet' doesn't apply as could still be in pending state whilst they continue dithering.

Which leaves the other option.

 

[InTheEastMids]

Does the “not awarded” in Section V mean “not yet” or “never”?

The phrase "discontinuation of procedure" to me means that this procurement exercise has been cancelled and no award will be made.
I would speculate that what's happened is they did get an offer, but when they've plugged the numbers into the Business Case it doesn't stack up as Chiltern/DfT/HMT would like.

If Chiltern/DfT change their minds, I think (but I am not a procurement specialist) that the would have to re-tender, as the offers they've received would no longer be binding.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Well, publishing an award notice on 14/11/24 that requires driver training to start in 2024 seems a bit tight.

Says to me they have a contender in mind and just need to go out to tender properly to give any alternatives a chance.

Perhaps the 68s have been successfully muted ENOUGH.

 

[paok]

Looks like they are going to refresh their 165 fleet although no timescales: https://www.chilternrailways.co.uk/sites/default/files/files/timetables/Chiltern_Right Route for Customers report Oct24_v6 final pdf.pdf

As well as refurbishing our Class 168 trains, we also have plans in place to refresh our Class 165 trains. These updates will include new LED lighting, new flooring, seat cushion refurbishment and an interior repaint to provide a better on-board experience for our customers. Further updates on this will be released soon.