Chiltern "Silver Sets" removal

[Vanmanyo]

Hi, with Chiltern having a render available for new bi mode units and the DFT ordering 450 new units, we could see a massive reshuffle of units in the next few years so I wondered if there was any news on Chiltern silver sets? I know currently their lease expires in May 2024 but this may be wrong and/or may be extended. It seems weird that they would relivery a 68 not so long ago if they are getting rid of them soon. I'm not sure but hope that they keep them until a replacement comes, Chiltern already have a dire fleet shortage so removal of 68s without replacement would make things far worse.

 

[Energy]

Chiltern has an estimated £400m tender out for 20-70 new units and a separate tender out for battery units as well as the framework agreement put out by Northern. One of these (or bits of multiple) will be Chiltern's long-term rolling stock.

Until 2028 I'd expect the 68s and mk3s to get their lease extended in short increments with potential replacement with existing stock (e.g 175s) considered. These would only be short-term replacements so I wouldn't rule out the 68s staying for a few more years rather than additional training and maintenance facilities for temporary stock.

 

[Vanmanyo]

Until 2028 I'd expect the 68s and mk3s to get their lease extended in short increments with potential replacement with existing stock (e.g 175s) considered. These would only be short-term replacements so I wouldn't rule out the 68s staying for a few more years rather than additional training and maintenance facilities for temporary stock

Funnily, the 68s were actually meant as temporary stock in the first place so it's nice they are lasting this long, although it seems they are permanent and not temporary now! Also apparently Chiltern rejected 175s due to their reliability or something but don't quote me on that!

 

[Energy]

Funnily, the 68s were actually meant as temporary stock in the first place so it's nice they are lasting this long, although it seems they are permanent and not temporary now!

Indeed, I think most expected turbostars to replace them at some point.

Also apparently Chiltern rejected 175s due to their reliability or something but don't quote me on that!

Not particularly suprising, 175s supposidly have a future customer for the whole lot lined up already.

 

[Vanmanyo]

Indeed, I think most expected turbostars to replace them at some point.

There were definitely times where they could've! The order of 172s could have had 168 style interiors with more ordered to replace the fleet but no, perhaps if Northern replace their 170s they could come down to the CML, who knows!

Not particularly suprising, 175s supposidly have a future customer for the whole lot lined up already.

Not too sure who, GWR perhaps? Northern getting new stock surely rules them out, unless they want them for temporary means? Chiltern we've already discussed but I can't be for sure. Apart from those I'm not sure who would want/need them!

 

[CyrusWuff]

There were definitely times where they could've! The order of 172s could have had 168 style interiors with more ordered to replace the fleet but no, perhaps if Northern replace their 170s they could come down to the CML, who knows!

The four 172/1s were ordered for the much vaunted "Chiltern Metro" service, which Evergreen 3 was due to enable.

Unfortunately it then got descoped, so they mostly ended up on the through services to Stratford-upon-Avon when they weren't stopped for repairs.

 

[Energy]

so they mostly ended up on the through services to Stratford-upon-Avon when they weren't stopped for repairs.

Indeed, their lack of trip cocks was a bit of a pain, the Stratford runs kept them fairly self-contained.

 

[Vanmanyo]

Indeed, their lack of trip cocks was a bit of a pain, the Stratford runs kept them fairly self-contained.

Bit stupid they did SAV-MYB as that's quite a distance (2 hours or so), I believe this was back when SAV got 2tph to MYB and not LMS so the 172s didnt suit that. Shame they were a micro fleet & weren't maintained at Tyseley or something!

 

[Energy]

Bit stupid they did SAV-MYB as that's quite a distance (2 hours or so), I believe this was back when SAV got 2tph to MYB and not LMS so the 172s didnt suit that. Shame they were a micro fleet & weren't maintained at Tyseley or something!

Chiltern hasn't really given S-A-V the attention it servers with the direct London services being killed off earlier this year. The 172 allocation was more dumping them on a route which dint matter to them.

I'm suprised they didn't put them on the Leamingotn to Birmingham services so they could be maintained at Tyseley.

 

[david1212]

Chiltern has an estimated £400m tender out for 20-70 new units and a separate tender out for battery units as well as the framework agreement put out by Northern. One of these (or bits of multiple) will be Chiltern's long-term rolling stock.

Until 2028 I'd expect the 68s and mk3s to get their lease extended in short increments with potential replacement with existing stock (e.g 175s) considered. These would only be short-term replacements so I wouldn't rule out the 68s staying for a few more years rather than additional training and maintenance facilities for temporary stock.

I agree. Right now Chiltern have numerous 165 & 168 sets out of use beyond planned maintenance. With the combination of increasing age and component supply issues I do not see this improving, particularly the 165's. The only mitigation they currently have or are likely to have even medium term are the "Silver Sets" so despite the protests from Khan backed by Street they have to continue unless the timetable is cut.

Only when they recive addition stock be that new or hand-me-down plus training is completed can the "Silver Sets" first be put to standby then handed back.

 

[Vanmanyo]

Right now Chiltern have numerous 165 & 168 sets out of use beyond planned maintenance.

Doesn't help Aylesbury has been closed recently and they've got a huge backlog from strikes and overtime bans! Although only one 168 has been out for longer than 6 months, probably two or three 165s. Most that are currently out are either awaiting planned maintenance or waiting for parts/refurbishment.

"Silver Sets" so despite the protests from Khan backed by Street they have to continue unless the timetable is cut.

Honestly these protests are stupid; why live by a mainline and expect for it to be silent! They are the crown in Chiltern's fleet so I very much hope they do receive a replacement before they are withdrawn, because chiltern wouldn't be able to cope without the 68s on the current timetable, and reducing an already pretty infrequent timetable would make the overcrowding worse.

 

[CR165022]

Doesn't help Aylesbury has been closed recently and they've got a huge backlog from strikes and overtime bans! Although only one 168 has been out for longer than 6 months, probably two or three 165s. Most that are currently out are either awaiting planned maintenance or waiting for parts/refurbishment.

The only 168 that is long term out of use is 168112, and is currently in the process of being repaired.

 

[Vanmanyo]

The only 168 that is long term out of use is 168112, and is currently in the process of being repaired.

Yep! I believe it was waiting for parts? 8001 was waiting upon an exhaust but this is currently being repaired (At Wolverton iirc). 8003 is having its refurbishment + repairs. There are probably a few more 168s out (like 8329).

 

[Snow1964]

DfT has today (11th Dec) published Chiltern Business Comittments 2023-2024, and now it is in black and white

In section 18.2 (a), provide a credible DMU fleet cascade option which is suitable for long distance operation ..... to replace the loco hauled sets

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/655f46cd5a2c2d0012f3f2d3/chiltern-railway-company-limited-2021-business-plan-commitments-2023-to-2024.pdf

 

[Peter Mugridge]

That presumably also nails the lid down on the Mk5 rumours...?

 

[43096]

That presumably also nails the lid down on the Mk5 rumours...?

Not necessarily. The document is dated April and things have changed since then!

 

[Vanmanyo]

Not necessarily. The document is dated April and things have changed since then!

True - directly below it it mentions the Hybrid-FLEX scheme so definitely things have changed! I would be surprised if Chiltern remove the 68s especially as they have only very recently invested in new HVO fuel technologies and a whole new livery on 68014 for this! Couldn't be cheap and surely wouldn't happen if they were going immenently?