Travelling in Sweden recently many people were using m-tickets on trains.
So they can work in a rail environment.
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Chiltern Railways m-ticket purchased, phone stolen
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Travelling in Sweden recently many people were using m-tickets on trains.
So they can work in a rail environment.
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RailUK Forums
They're probably out enjoying some great food right now, thinking about their rich futures - which won't happen if Joe Public get put off from the outset.
Suddenly these funky offices will seem bigger as people get laid off, until they end up moving to slightly less funky offices (how funky can a Job Centre office be?)
I'm clearly exaggerating a bit here for comic effect, but there is still a lot of truth in it!
Of course they can, but someone needs to think things through properly - and that includes looking at something from an end-user perspective. Something new like this is going to require trust in the public to switch, or at least gradually try things out.
Sweden is of course a country (not that I'm biased!!) that is very willing to embrace new technology, although they were relatively late to introducing smartcards in Stockholm. That said, their antiquated system that existed before (including strips of paper that were stamped) worked incredibly well and no doubt was considered 'not broken'.
I did find it odd when they stopped taking cash on buses, but didn't put any ticket machines at bus stops in rural areas. If you hadn't previously bought your ticket (or got a smartcard) then you couldn't travel - at least not officially. That was rather bizarre, but I guess most Swedes accepted this and made sure they got a smartcard.
Over here, you'd have people refuse to get a smartcard in case MI5 was tracking them; exactly as happened in the early days of Oyster.
Suddenly these funky offices will seem bigger as people get laid off, until they end up moving to slightly less funky offices (how funky can a Job Centre office be?)
I'm clearly exaggerating a bit here for comic effect, but there is still a lot of truth in it!
Of course they can, but someone needs to think things through properly - and that includes looking at something from an end-user perspective. Something new like this is going to require trust in the public to switch, or at least gradually try things out.
Sweden is of course a country (not that I'm biased!!) that is very willing to embrace new technology, although they were relatively late to introducing smartcards in Stockholm. That said, their antiquated system that existed before (including strips of paper that were stamped) worked incredibly well and no doubt was considered 'not broken'.
I did find it odd when they stopped taking cash on buses, but didn't put any ticket machines at bus stops in rural areas. If you hadn't previously bought your ticket (or got a smartcard) then you couldn't travel - at least not officially. That was rather bizarre, but I guess most Swedes accepted this and made sure they got a smartcard.
Over here, you'd have people refuse to get a smartcard in case MI5 was tracking them; exactly as happened in the early days of Oyster.
Yeah, but you can have one iTunes account for more than one device. There must be some way of having a system whereby lost m-tickets can be recovered though, otherwise the whole system is as much use as a chocolate teapot imho.
Yeah, I pointed that out several pages ago.
Indeed.
That's the thing with iOS and Android. I can (and do) have 5 or 6 Android devices that are logged in on with my single account. Any app bought on one can be downloaded and run on the other. That app could be customised for me, although most clearly aren't.
If I have a phone and tablet, why can't I access a file on either? The answer seems to be that there's a potential security risk for the operator, so best restrict it completely.
The funny thing is that nearly everything else I work with (email, contacts, appointments, docs and files) are stored in the cloud. Yes, I can save locally but everything is safely stored thousands of miles away and I can access on anything I log into. It's great, and means I never really need to sync any device with another device or PC/Mac - it all happens in the background automatically. When I get a new email, every device gets it within a matter of seconds - and if I read the message on one, it's marked as read on everything else so I don't see it twice.
But imagine if Gmail suddenly marked a message read and then removed it from existence so it was only on the first phone and I couldn't even see by searching through read mail? My email is in fact archived until I permanently remove it, and with 80GB of Google storage, I have emails going back years - including all my sent emails and attachments. Only I decide when to get rid of them.
Just look at all the new social media services. Everything on Facebook, Twitter, Picasa (insert any other service here) all stored safe and secure (most of the time!). Then someone comes along and issues a ticket on a one-off basis and 'tough luck' if lost. I really can't think of any other example where this might happen.
Oh yes, when it's scanned by someone that sends back a 'scanned' confirmation to the server that marks it as used. But, even then, you'd expect to be able to see that you had it in your 'transactions' folder for accounting purposes.
If I have a phone and tablet, why can't I access a file on either? The answer seems to be that there's a potential security risk for the operator, so best restrict it completely.
The funny thing is that nearly everything else I work with (email, contacts, appointments, docs and files) are stored in the cloud. Yes, I can save locally but everything is safely stored thousands of miles away and I can access on anything I log into. It's great, and means I never really need to sync any device with another device or PC/Mac - it all happens in the background automatically. When I get a new email, every device gets it within a matter of seconds - and if I read the message on one, it's marked as read on everything else so I don't see it twice.
But imagine if Gmail suddenly marked a message read and then removed it from existence so it was only on the first phone and I couldn't even see by searching through read mail? My email is in fact archived until I permanently remove it, and with 80GB of Google storage, I have emails going back years - including all my sent emails and attachments. Only I decide when to get rid of them.
Just look at all the new social media services. Everything on Facebook, Twitter, Picasa (insert any other service here) all stored safe and secure (most of the time!). Then someone comes along and issues a ticket on a one-off basis and 'tough luck' if lost. I really can't think of any other example where this might happen.
Oh yes, when it's scanned by someone that sends back a 'scanned' confirmation to the server that marks it as used. But, even then, you'd expect to be able to see that you had it in your 'transactions' folder for accounting purposes.
LondonJohn
Member
Seems to work quite well with Megatrain with just a booking number sent to my phone by text.
They tick off against a list though don't they? That's quite an old-school way of doing it but it works, which is probably all that matters.
You can easily write that text down, which I used to do when I made an order with Argos - but they send a text and email now.
I've never actually tried to enter the code again. With Argos, if the item(s) are still in stock after the first order, I doubt they'd have a problem with you trying again!!
You can easily write that text down, which I used to do when I made an order with Argos - but they send a text and email now.
I've never actually tried to enter the code again. With Argos, if the item(s) are still in stock after the first order, I doubt they'd have a problem with you trying again!!
And if by coincidence, on the Chiltern Railways Facebook page:
"Chiltern Railways are up for Most Effective Mobile Ticketing Solution at the Effective Mobile Marketing awards for App"
http://www.mobilemarketingmagazine....ve-mobile-marketing-awards-shortlist-revealed
"Chiltern Railways are up for Most Effective Mobile Ticketing Solution at the Effective Mobile Marketing awards for App"
http://www.mobilemarketingmagazine....ve-mobile-marketing-awards-shortlist-revealed
Maybe they should enter the Most Effective Mobile Charity Solution category as it appears they'll be generating plenty of donations.
Not necessarily. Bus Éireann offers online ticketing verified by checksum the driver keys in the ticket number into his machine which checks that it's correct for the journey, date, service, and ticket type. No communication or database is necessary, and if a ticket code is used twice on the same trip, the machine will reject it.
...and the passenger will not be allowed on the bus unless they purchase a ticket, which is kind of like a check in!
Your documentaion will still be checked before boarding, unlike UK trains.
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mallard
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That won't work for walk-up fares, which is apparently the problem as Chiltern sell walk-up fares this way.
The conductor can just check it on board like this.
The release says how staff check, either scanning a barcode or checking the colour sequence. I wonder if that's like a game of Simon?!
In theory, I wonder how long until someone figures a quick way to buy a ticket such that they'll wait until they see revenue officers, walk up the carriage, buy a ticket and then present it? If you can save favourite journeys and have pre-registered your card details, surely this will be possible?
In theory, I wonder how long until someone figures a quick way to buy a ticket such that they'll wait until they see revenue officers, walk up the carriage, buy a ticket and then present it? If you can save favourite journeys and have pre-registered your card details, surely this will be possible?
shinkansen1966
Member
Complained about my m-ticket experience. Asked for £5 rail voucher as compensation. They've responded saying no, but I have asked Chiltern Railways to reconsider. No response yet.
They've just reminded about their m-ticket T&Cs:
http://tickets.chilternrailways.co.uk/ch/en/information/MobileTicketTandC.htm
They've just reminded about their m-ticket T&Cs:
http://tickets.chilternrailways.co.uk/ch/en/information/MobileTicketTandC.htm
mallard
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It's not really surprising that CrossCountry are implementing this too, Chiltern and XC do have the same parent company after all...
shinkansen1966
Member
Maybe they should enter the Most Effective Mobile Charity Solution category as it appears they'll be generating plenty of donations.
I've emailed Mobile Marketing and explained what happened to me. Said I was unhappy with my own experience of the Chiltern Railways app. And said I would be disappointed if they stayed on the awards shortlist.
shinkansen1966
Member
and surprise, surprise: the XC ticket app has exactly the same limitations:
- you cannot transfer your ticket from one mobile phone to another
- you cannot download the ticket again from your 'manage my bookings' section of your account
Indeed. Just got a speedy reponse from editor David Murphy, Editor, Mobile Marketing. I only contacted them last night. The Chiltern Railways app is on their awards shortlist.
David Murphy is writing to Chiltern Railways for their comments.
A ticket punch should do it
We all know that conductors don't always get through the train, and all of the other problems associated with ticket checks on board.
What would happen if the conductor did find the documentation wrong or incomplete? On Bus Eireann, you don't get on, in the UK you'd already be on the train.
some people have probably already figured it out. So there's anothe rproblem!
I thought you'd accepted the ticket was gone!
That's a clever approach, which may well get some results!
The customer is treated the same way as if he/she did not have the documentation relating to a paper ticket, e.g. an advance without a reservation or a discounted ticket without a railcard.
What you mena is some people will be 'let off', some will be penalty fared, some will be told they ahve to buy a full anytime return, and so on!
Isn;t there enough argument and conlict on trains now, without introducing the opportunity for a lot more?!
None of this persuades me that these systems don't need either a live database or a check in process. Yes, it could be done, but that doesn't mean it is sensible to do it.
Well, this clause for one is outrageous and questionably illegal as it almost certainly falls foul of the The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 and The Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977.!
"We may modify the terms and conditions relating to Mobile and Self Print ticketing at any time by posting revised terms on this site."
How is the consumer to know these have been changed? Will Chiltern retrospectively after contrcat formation seek to apply new terms to tickets already purchased but not yet used?
Turning to the specifics of this case, The Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000, SI 2000/2334, incorporate Directive 97/7/EC into law of the United Kingdom. They apply to contracts "concluded between a supplier and a consumer under an organised distance sales or services provision scheme run by the supplier who, for the purposes of the contract, makes use of one or more means of distance communication" up to and including the moment of contract formation. This subordinate legislation provides for rights of the consumer and provisions for which the seller is obliged to fulfill. Examples may include ordering services by telephone or ordering goods via the internet.
Specifically The Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000 give the consumer has an automatic right to cancel and rescind the contract at any time from formation of the contract until seven working days after the goods are delivered; or for service contracts, seven working days after the contract was formed (this may be before the service has been performed). I would suggest that if you are within this time window you do exactly this with Chiltern. The paragraph above makes it clear that this legislation applies here!
Indeed the Regulations place an absolute obligation on the supplier to provide notification of the right of cancellation (reg 13) - did Chiltern do so? Where the supplier has not provided the consumer with all the required information, the consumer has an automatic right to rescind the contract within three months and seven days of delivery of the goods, or of formation of the contract (service contracts).
However, there is a possible 'out' for Chiltern as the automatic right does not apply to contracts for products of fluctuating price - this could include train tickets.
Note that the Regulations specifically exclude certain types of contract BUT this does not include either transportation tickets generally or rail tickets in particular.
But as you have downloaded the ticket you would have to return it to Chiltern in order to cancel the contract. Note see later message to render this message superfloous
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...and they would have to provide the means for you to do so......
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Or, far more likely, remove the ticket from the list they must have somewhere of valid tickets.....
Certainly when using a printed version of these tickets Chilton scanned the barcode - I assume checks must be done against a validity list.
collybs
You are entirely correct!
That will teach me to look at the whole Regulation!
Transport is NOT in the "Excepted Contract" list but IS in the "Contracts to which only part of the Regulations apply" list. The parts which do not apply do indeed remove the rights I mentioned above - sorry for misinforming anyone.
For completeness, the Regulations:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2000/2334/contents/made
You are entirely correct!
That will teach me to look at the whole Regulation!
Transport is NOT in the "Excepted Contract" list but IS in the "Contracts to which only part of the Regulations apply" list. The parts which do not apply do indeed remove the rights I mentioned above - sorry for misinforming anyone.For completeness, the Regulations:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2000/2334/contents/made
Solent&Wessex
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In summary:
An m-ticket is a different way of buying a receiving your ticket.
You can buy, seemingly, Anytime tickets as well as Advance tickets.
If you lost your paper Anytime ticket would you just walk up to the ticket office and expect to be handed another one for free?
No.
So don't loose your m-ticket either, as aside from the way it is presented, it should be treated exactly the same.
An m-ticket is a different way of buying a receiving your ticket.
You can buy, seemingly, Anytime tickets as well as Advance tickets.
If you lost your paper Anytime ticket would you just walk up to the ticket office and expect to be handed another one for free?
No.
So don't loose your m-ticket either, as aside from the way it is presented, it should be treated exactly the same.
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