Chiltern Railway - Prosecution threat

[bobby97]

Last week I brought a ticket from Wembley to Marylebone and was caught by the ticket officer at the station for avoiding paying for the full journey.

I admitted that I came from Gerrards Cross and admitted to trying to avoid paying the full fare. They had also seen me get on the train. I did notice that the ticket officers video camera was not on.

I filled out a form with my details and have been told to await a letter.

I very rarely get the train (as normally drive), first time travelling on Chiltern Railways for 4+ years and don’t have any other times of avoiding fares.

I’d appreciate if you could share any similar experiences and how I can get this resolved - in the least consequential way possible? Also, what the likely outcome is going to be?

 

[30907]

Last week I brought a ticket from Wembley to Marylebone and was caught by the ticket officer at the station for avoiding paying for the full journey.

I admitted that I came from Gerrards Cross and admitted to trying to avoid paying the full fare. They had also seen me get on the train. I did notice that the ticket officers video camera was not on.

I filled out a form with my details and have been told to await a letter.

I very rarely get the train (as normally drive), first time travelling on Chiltern Railways for 4+ years and don’t have any other times of avoiding fares.

I’d appreciate if you could share any similar experiences and how I can get this resolved - in the least consequential way possible? Also, what the likely outcome is going to be?

As with most train companies, they will be in touch by letter (or email) in a few weeks. They are not particularly set on taking you to court, but they want to make sure you won't cheat again.

If you cooperate fully the likely result is an administrative settlement, costing you the full fare plus an admin sum of £100+. (They will have investigated your ticketing history, but as you say this is your first offence, that won't affect things.)

 

[Haywain]

first time travelling on Chiltern Railways for 4+ years and don’t have any other times of avoiding fares.

They will check for journeys with other train companies.

 

[bobby97]

Ok thanks for quick responses. Appreciate it.

 

[Titfield]

You may wish to consider the advice forum member @Hadders gives in these circumstances.

Once you have received the letter from Chiltern Railways:

You should be able to settle this out of court if you write a short, concise reply to the letter. I suggest mentioning the following in the reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Post a draft of your reply in this thread and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you. Don't use AI to generate the letter, we can spot them a mile off!

Chiltern Railways will normally offer an out of court settlement costing around £150 plus the fare avoided at the full Anytime rate. You will normally have to pay this in full within a few days of it being offered.

Chiltern Railways is one of the more challenging operators to deal with so it may take more than one letter to "encourage" them to offer you an out of court settlement.

 

[Haywain]

it may take more than one letter to "encourage" them to offer you an out of court settlement.

This isn't something we have seen happening for some time now.

 

[Titfield]

This isn't something we have seen happening for some time now.

Yes I had noticed that but wondered if this was a permanent change in Chiltern's approach to all cases or just that those cases reported on here were ones where Chiltern had followed that specific approach.

Hopefully this is an indication that Chiltern are more prepared to offer out of court settlements which imho is far more appropriate to all those other than serial fare evaders.

 

[Hadders]

Having to write a couple of letters was a thing when Transport Investigations Limited dealt with many of Chiltern's cases. It seems that Chiltern no longer use TIL and consequently they've become more reasonable to deal with.

@bobby97 when it arrives, post a copy of the letter in this thread (but do redact any personal details and case reference numbers) along with your draft reply and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

 

[RevenueProtect]

Unfortunately you have committed fraud and some train companies are more aggressive than others with regard to prosecutions. With regard to the revenue protections officers body cam, this is irrelevant, as if you go to court, Chiltern trains will simply get hold of CCTV footage from Gerrards Cross to be used as evidence.
On a positive note, most train companies want to settle out of court where possible.

I would strongly recommend that once you receive the letter ( it will be c£100 fine but cheaper if you settle earlier) that you pay it rather than try and take them on in court.. as you will most likely lose and it will start costing you an awful lot more. What's worse is, you could get a criminal conviction against you - which is not good for career prosects etc.

 

[Spaceship323]

Unfortunately you have committed fraud and some train companies are more aggressive than others with regard to prosecutions. With regard to the revenue protections officers body cam, this is irrelevant, as if you go to court, Chiltern trains will simply get hold of CCTV footage from Gerrards Cross to be used as evidence.
On a positive note, most train companies want to settle out of court where possible.

I would strongly recommend that once you receive the letter ( it will be c£100 fine but cheaper if you settle earlier) that you pay it rather than try and take them on in court.. as you will most likely lose and it will start costing you an awful lot more. What's worse is, you could get a criminal conviction against you - which is not good for career prosects etc.

Revenue saw the OP board the train and this will be in their report, there will be no need for CCTV

 

[bobby97]

Thanks all, will post again when I hear more

 

[Hadders]

Unfortunately you have committed fraud and some train companies are more aggressive than others with regard to prosecutions. With regard to the revenue protections officers body cam, this is irrelevant, as if you go to court, Chiltern trains will simply get hold of CCTV footage from Gerrards Cross to be used as evidence.
On a positive note, most train companies want to settle out of court where possible.

I would strongly recommend that once you receive the letter ( it will be c£100 fine but cheaper if you settle earlier) that you pay it rather than try and take them on in court.. as you will most likely lose and it will start costing you an awful lot more. What's worse is, you could get a criminal conviction against you - which is not good for career prosects etc.

Cases like this do not get dealt with as fraud. It’s a straightforward case of short ticketing.

Chiltern won’t write to the OP asking them to pay a fine. They will write saying they have received a report of a ticket irregularity and are considering prosecuting, but asking for the OP’s version of events before they decide how to proceed.

If you co-operate with Chiltern then it is highly likely that they will offer an out of court settlement. An out of court settlement might appear to be like a fine but technically it isn’t - only a court can impose a fine as a punishment following a conviction. Paying an out of court settlement doesn’t result in a criminal record.

 

[bobby97]

Hi there, letter received will share a draft response if anyone can help review - thanks

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Dec 2024 ==

Dear Sir/Madam,



Following the letter I received dated 13th December 2024 regarding the incident on Sunday 1st September 2024, reference number -



I want to apologise for my actions on Sunday 1st September, I am so sorry for what I did and realise it is completely wrong and there is no excuse. I will never do this again as I realise the impact it has had on Chiltern Railways.



If possible, I would be grateful if it is possible to resolve this matter without the need for court action. I am willing to pay the outstanding fares plus your administrative costs in dealing with the matter.



Please accept my apologies again.



Best wishes,

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Dec 2024 ==

I will also of course include my railcard

 

[Spaceship323]

Chiltern's letter states they have evidence that you have done this multiple times and I think this part needs to be dealt with first. You could ask them when they think you have travelled recently and what evidence they have so that you can check your records. If you reply just about 1st September they may think you have something to hide. Hopefully one of the experts will be along shortly to assist.

 

[John R]

They have explicitly mentioned previous occasions so you do need to address this, as otherwise you are unlikely to be offered a settlement.

They will have the same info that you have if you look back at your Trainline (or similar) account. So assuming you agree that this wasn't the first time, you are advised to go through your account, work out how many times you have done it between x date and today, and admit to the number. That will make both yours and their tasks easier in getting the matter resolved without going to court.

A minor point, you don't end a formal business letter, Best Wishes, but Yours Faithfully, where you are responding Dear Sir/Madam

 

[WesternLancer]

Chiltern's letter states they have evidence that you have done this multiple times and I think this part needs to be dealt with first. You could ask them when they think you have travelled recently and what evidence they have so that you can check your records. If you reply just about 1st September they may think you have something to hide. Hopefully one of the experts will be along shortly to assist.

I do agree with this FWIW. the reply @bobby97 sends needs to address this issue - ideally in a way which is worded such that it includes a general apology and asks them politely to detail occasions 'when they believe there may be other ticketing irregularities so I can check my records' (ie I would not make it sound like you are 'challenging' them to prove it as chances of a settlement probably diminished by sounding conflictual. Instead you want to sound co-operative).

 

[bobby97]

Hi thanks for the responses. To be honest I don’t ever remember doing this before however I can’t argue that. I don’t travel for work or consistently make the same journey. Do you think adding something like the below is ok:

Please may you kindly advise when you believe there are other ticket irregularities so I may check my records?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Hi thanks for the responses. To be honest I don’t ever remember doing this before however I can’t argue that. I don’t travel for work or consistently make the same journey. Do you think adding something like the below is ok:

Please may you kindly advise when you believe there are other ticket irregularities so I may check my records?

You may be able to cut one exchange of letters out if you say something like

I don't remember making any other train journeys when I did not pay the right fare. Please would you kindly advise when you believe there are other ticket irregularities so I may check my records?

As people have said above, it's important to be co-operative, but it's worth explaining why you want more details from Chiltern - and if there really aren't any other occasions they may accept your statement and move straight to offering an out of court settlement.

 

[WesternLancer]

You may be able to cut one exchange of letters out if you say something like



As people have said above, it's important to be co-operative, but it's worth explaining why you want more details from Chiltern - and if there really aren't any other occasions they may accept your statement and move straight to offering an out of court settlement.

I think this is v good advice.

 

[bobby97]

Hi all, thanks for the advice. I’ve just been through my Trainline account and have realised there was a period of 3 months this time last year when unfortunately I hadn’t realised my railcard expired. So have been travelling on a railcard ticket without a valid railcard to show. This is a genuine mistake and I hadn’t even realised and am now incredibly embarrassed.

It affects 7 journeys in total which I will outline in the letter and include the railcards to show where the gap is.

I want to be fully cooperative and pay the outstanding fares/admin fee as quickly as possible to get this all sorted.

Any further advice gratefully received. I don’t want to end up in court.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi all, thanks for the advice. I’ve just been through my Trainline account and have realised there was a period of 3 months this time last year when unfortunately I hadn’t realised my railcard expired. So have been travelling on a railcard ticket without a valid railcard to show. This is a genuine mistake and I hadn’t even realised and am now incredibly embarrassed.

It affects 7 journeys in total which I will outline in the letter and include the railcards to show where the gap is.

I want to be fully cooperative and pay the outstanding fares/admin fee as quickly as possible to get this all sorted.

Any further advice gratefully received. I don’t want to end up in court.

I would think this is exactly the kind of approach that will help avoid court.

Be sure to stress in your response this was a genuine error and in no way did you ever intend not to pay the correct fare ie it is not deliberate fare evasion.

 

[bobby97]

Thank you, checking if any final advice before I send it? Appreciate everyone’s help

 

[30907]

Thank you, checking if any final advice before I send it? Appreciate everyone’s help

I don't think we've seen your final draft, but I assume it includes your reference to 7 other journeys. On that basis, it will be fine.