Chiltern passenger charter delay compensation for disruptive passengers

[Muzer]

I put in a delay compensation request with Chiltern for a delay caused by disruptive passengers. However, they have refused the request because the delay was outside the rail industry's control.

I know that in theory the old Passenger Charter TOCs (there can't be many left now...) are within their rights to refuse delay compensation for this reason, but I thought in practice all of them had been told to offer it anyway. Maybe I'm getting confused with something else.

I just wanted to report this data point so people on the forum would be aware that this practice is going on.

 

[221129]

I put in a delay compensation request with Chiltern for a delay caused by disruptive passengers. However, they have refused the request because the delay was outside the rail industry's control.

I know that in theory the old Passenger Charter TOCs (there can't be many left now...) are within their rights to refuse delay compensation for this reason, but I thought in practice all of them had been told to offer it anyway. Maybe I'm getting confused with something else.

I just wanted to report this data point so people on the forum would be aware that this practice is going on.

You were mistaken.

 

[najaB]

I know that in theory the old Passenger Charter TOCs (there can't be many left now...) are within their rights to refuse delay compensation for this reason, but I thought in practice all of them had been told to offer it anyway.

I doubt the DfT could get away with telling them to offer compensation on different terms to those that the franchise had been let on as it would mess up the financials.

 

[Muzer]

True. I certainly know SWT in the latter days of their passenger charter compensation would award it whatever happened, and I think the same also applied to GWR (I received it after a lightning strike at least, which you think would be considered outside the railway's control).

 

[Nick66]

AIUI the TOCs are only obliged to pay compensation for delays under their (or also Network Rail's?) control but the Delay Repay scheme operated by some TOCs pay compensation for all delays.

 

[bnm]

Try submitting the claim again, this time mentioning the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

 

[JN114]

The consumer rights act has been extended to include rail services. Under that there might be a case for Chiltern to pay up, but per Chiltern’s passenger charter there is unfortunately no compensation due.

No clear legal precedent has been established as to whether the CRA actually trumps existing compensation arrangements, or as ATOC/RDG have claimed all along that all TOCs arrangements are already compliant. I see it waved around from time to time as if it’s some magic word(s) that opens locked doors to secret rooms - but looking both through this forum and more widely online there seems to be little evidence that it has changed anything - other than perhaps forcing the DfT to let New franchises inclusive of Delay Repay, and Train Operators now more openly stating customers may be eligible for compensation.

Mention it, by all means. Then come back here and let us know what they say.

 

[AlterEgo]

Try submitting the claim again, this time mentioning the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

How would that apply here, where the delay was caused by disruptive passengers?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I would say the way in which the delay was exactly caused will matter. If they took some action (or didn't take some action) and thereby lengthened or originally caused the delay, I don't see how they're not liable - Passenger's Charter or otherwise. But if it was indeed wholly outside their control then I don't see there's anything to be done.

 

[Muzer]

Presumably it was decided (whether by Chiltern or by other passengers) that the BTP needed to be involved, as they were in force at Birmingham Moor Street. We had also stopped for quite a while in "the middle of nowhere" which was also explained as being due to disruptive passengers.

 

[island]

No clear legal precedent has been established as to whether the CRA actually trumps existing compensation arrangements, or as ATOC/RDG have claimed all along that all TOCs arrangements are already compliant. I see it waved around from time to time as if it’s some magic word(s) that opens locked doors to secret rooms - but looking both through this forum and more widely online there seems to be little evidence that it has changed anything - other than perhaps forcing the DfT to let New franchises inclusive of Delay Repay, and Train Operators now more openly stating customers may be eligible for compensation.

Well put.