Chiltern Oxford Link completed

[RPM]

Is it really that difficult to drive to Bicester Village station? I appreciate it is less than perfect, but people are making it sound like the equivalent of driving into central London. And surely for the Langford side of Bicester it is easier than Bicester North?

It looks to me that there is potential for a greater degree of double decking at Bicester Village car park. Maybe that is the way forward, combined with a new information campaign to encourage people across from BCS to BIT.

If there was a regular, free shuttle bus between the two stations would that help the situation I wonder? Then passengers could set off from either station and have the option of returning to the other one and getting a lift back to their car.
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Are there more 168/3s due to enter service or are they all already in operation?

Four more coming next spring, if all goes to plan. Apparently another eight DMU vehicles are also being obtained but the source of these has not yet been made public.
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an hour long journey on the Banbury loco hauled set in all its shabby glory!

It won't be shabby for much longer. The coaches are being refurbished one at a time. The first one to be done has already been inserted into the set. Still slam door, but much improved internally and painted into the same silver & white livery as the 168s.

 

[67018]

Is it really that difficult to drive to Bicester Village station? I appreciate it is less than perfect, but people are making it sound like the equivalent of driving into central London. And surely for the Langford side of Bicester it is easier than Bicester North?

It looks to me that there is potential for a greater degree of double decking at Bicester Village car park. Maybe that is the way forward, combined with a new information campaign to encourage people across from BCS to BIT.

From the Langford direction it's OK provided you don't get stuck at the level crossing - something else that the Chiltern leaflet refers to. Diverting via Launton Road doesn't work at the moment as it's closed for gas works. Leaving the station, if you avoid the level crossing you have to go halfway to Bicester North before doubling back, because Causeway is one way.

jimm may be on to something - if they take the deck off the car park at North station and install it at Village, that might help!

The 'promotional' leaflet doesn't seem to be very well thought out if the desire is for people to switch to the new station.

If there was a regular, free shuttle bus between the two stations would that help the situation I wonder? Then passengers could set off from either station and have the option of returning to the other one and getting a lift back to their car.

There is, of course, a shuttle bus, sadly it's most definitely not free and indeed it's made very clear that tickets to one Bicester station are valid to the other but *not* from one to the other. Bit of a missed opportunity really.

It won't be shabby for much longer. The coaches are being refurbished one at a time. The first one to be done has already been inserted into the set. Still slam door, but much improved internally and painted into the same silver & white livery as the 168s.

That's a shame I quite liked it as it was, with the excitement of whether heating and/or lights would be working thrown in. Doubtless the people who've just been switched from a 168 will appreciate it though.
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For anyone who's interested, this is the main content from the aforementioned Chiltern flyer entitled 'Which Bicester station is right for you'. People can draw their own conclusions about whether this supports their assumption that half the passengers would switch to the new one.

The launch of the new line between Oxford Parkway and London Marylebone brings some exciting changes for Bicester - including a new station, Bicester Village, and more trains to London than ever before.

This new service means some trains that used to run through Bicester North will now run through Bicester Village to Oxford Parkway. And we'll ve extending this service to Oxford city centre station next year.

Bicester North station may be right for you if you;
- prefer to drive to the station
- live to the north of Bicester
- live near the ring road in Bicester
- are travelling to Birmingham

Bicester Village station may be right for you if you;
- live within walking or cycling distance
- you live in Langford Village
- are travelling to the new Oxford Parkway station

Tickets
- Tickets from Bicester North to London Marylebone (including intermediate stations) will be valid for travel from the new Bicester Village station
- Ticket prices will be the same from both stations

Shuttle bus
- Unfortunately, travel on the shuttle bus between Bicester North and Bicester Village station is not included in the cost of your rail ticket. This service is provided for visitors to the outlet shopping centre whose tickets include shuttle travel
- Regular tickets are valid to or from both Bicester stations, but not for travel between them

Car Parking
- Parking tickets at Bicester North and Bicester Village are valid at both stations
- Please be aware that Bicester Village has just over 200 car parking spaces and is likely to become very busy in the early morning
- Traffic will also be affected by the railway crossing barriers in the London Road area - so if you drive, we'd recommend Bicester North station, which has over 700 spaces

 

[NickBucks]

Given the lack of interest shown by Chiltern in the Marylebone to Aylesbury service via Amersham why don't they reduce this to an Aylesbury- Amersham shuttle and move the 165 units freed up to add extra carriages to the Banbury services ? All we have heard from Chiltern over the past few years is London to Birmingham/ London to Oxford/ Silver trains etc. All about the Cinderella line and nothing about the ugly sisters line. There has been no investment in improving travel times for years, the 165 units are looking shabby and are as overcrowded in the peaks as the Banbury service but we never get a mention from Chiltern. In times past outside the peak you used to get the pleasure of a 168 unit but those days are now gone. The 168/3 series are not compatible with LUL lines so we shall not benefit from those either. Of course the fares do not reflect the third class service offering we now get.

 

[JonathanH]

Given the lack of interest shown by Chiltern in the Marylebone to Aylesbury service via Amersham why don't they reduce this to an Aylesbury- Amersham shuttle and move the 165 units freed up to add extra carriages to the Banbury services ? All we have heard from Chiltern over the past few years is London to Birmingham/ London to Oxford/ Silver trains etc. All about the Cinderella line and nothing about the ugly sisters line. There has been no investment in improving travel times for years, the 165 units are looking shabby and are as overcrowded in the peaks as the Banbury service but we never get a mention from Chiltern. In times past outside the peak you used to get the pleasure of a 168 unit but those days are now gone. The 168/3 series are not compatible with LUL lines so we shall not benefit from those either. Of course the fares do not reflect the third class service offering we now get.

168/3 units can work over the LUL route from Harrow-on-the-Hill to Amersham as I have travelled from Marylebone to Harrow-on-the-Hill on one. Of course, they don't work that way on many services.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Bicester Village station may be right for you if you;
- live within walking or cycling distance

Given that nowhere in Bicester is more than 1.7 miles from Bicester Village station, and even Caversfield and Launton are barely more than 2 miles, that's a lot of people.

 

[RPM]

168/3 units can work over the LUL route from Harrow-on-the-Hill to Amersham as I have travelled from Marylebone to Harrow-on-the-Hill on one. Of course, they don't work that way on many services.

They can, but not alone or as the leading unit in a formation. Because they are not ATP fitted, LUL have banned them from working solo or as a leading unit because they lack the anti-rollback feature that ATP provides, even when working on non-ATP infrastructure.
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Given the lack of interest shown by Chiltern in the Marylebone to Aylesbury service via Amersham why don't they reduce this to an Aylesbury- Amersham shuttle and move the 165 units freed up to add extra carriages to the Banbury services ? All we have heard from Chiltern over the past few years is London to Birmingham/ London to Oxford/ Silver trains etc. All about the Cinderella line and nothing about the ugly sisters line. There has been no investment in improving travel times for years, the 165 units are looking shabby and are as overcrowded in the peaks as the Banbury service but we never get a mention from Chiltern. In times past outside the peak you used to get the pleasure of a 168 unit but those days are now gone. The 168/3 series are not compatible with LUL lines so we shall not benefit from those either. Of course the fares do not reflect the third class service offering we now get.

A few points to make re this post:

- That would make the Amersham line service even less attractive than it already is. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face!

- The scope for Chiltern improving services over this route is highly restricted, owing to running over LUL infrastructure. Chiltern run over LUL infrastructure on LUL's terms..

- In terms of shabbiness, the 165s are about to go through a full C6 overhaul plus DDA compliant mods. The first unit is being done now.

- There are still booked 168 workings on the Amersham line.

- 168/3s can run over this route, subject to the restrictions I have outlined above.

- Compared to comparable journeys on the Chiltern Main Line and WCML, the fares via the "Met" are lower. Have a look at equivalent fares to London from Tring, Wendover & Princes Risborough.

 

[jimm]

It was a bit of a surprise that their leaflet didn't try to push Village station harder; maybe they are concerned about the smaller car park filling up. On the other hand, what if they encourage people to switch and then the trains end up full of Oxford commuters once the line int Oxford itself is opened?

I wouldn't worry too much about the impact on passenger numbers of the extension to Oxford station when it happens - Chiltern's strategy has always appeared to me to regard the Parkway station and its enormous car park as the key to making a success of the Oxford services, with any custom from and to the city centre as an added bonus.

 

[67018]

Given that nowhere in Bicester is more than 1.7 miles from Bicester Village station, and even Caversfield and Launton are barely more than 2 miles, that's a lot of people.

True, although few places in Bicester are more than a mile from Bicester North, and to cycle/walk from Caversfield to Bicester Village you'd have to go right past North!

Bicester Village is right on the edge of the built up area at the moment, although things will look very different when Kingsmere and Graven Hill are fully developed.

 

[HowardGWR]

I wouldn't worry too much about the impact on passenger numbers of the extension to Oxford station when it happens - Chiltern's strategy has always appeared to me to regard the Parkway station and its enormous car park as the key to making a success of the Oxford services, with any custom from and to the city centre as an added bonus.

A couple of questions please, if anyone knows; first, what is the maximum length of train that could be accommodated at Village and is SDO then needed at Islip?

Second, how many currently cycle to Bicester North (or were prior to the Oxford line opening)? I thought it was pretty flat around Bicester.

 

[The Planner]

Platform 1 at Bicester Village is 240m, Platform 2 is 230m. Islip is 194m in both directions. SDO answers itself here.
Signalling notice (yellow peril) states 9 car DOO at Bicester Village, 8 car DOO at Islip.

 

[RPM]

A couple of questions please, if anyone knows; first, what is the maximum length of train that could be accommodated at Village and is SDO then needed at Islip?

No SDO on Chiltern at all. If trains are overlength then the only option is to lock out a coach, or potentially a whole unit. If trains are DOO then that coach has to spend the entire journey locked out. If working with a guard, it can be unlocked again once the train has called at the short platformed station.

BIT and OXP have 9 car platforms. ISP can only take 8, but very unlikely a 9 car service would ever be required to stop there.

 

[jimm]

A couple of questions please, if anyone knows; first, what is the maximum length of train that could be accommodated at Village and is SDO then needed at Islip?

Second, how many currently cycle to Bicester North (or were prior to the Oxford line opening)? I thought it was pretty flat around Bicester.

I see a couple of the experts have got in already but also bear in mind that the train lengths will be limited to the size of the new north bays at Oxford station - until the main rebuilding gets under way - and these certainly aren't going to be longer than eight coaches.

Someone else will know how much cycling is going on but it is important to remember that for a very long time Chiltern has encouraged people to drive to its stations from long distances.

Very many of the cars left at Bicester North are coming from much further out than the town itself - such as the woman quoted in the BBC report above who was from Witney, even though to get to Bicester she will be driving past Hanborough and/or Oxford Parkway stations. These people cannot be converted to cycling or buses - and even people in the town can't use buses as they're not available at the right time in the morning. Indeed what town bus services there are could become even scarcer next year now that Oxfordshire County Council is set to axe all subsidies for bus services.

 

[67018]

A couple of questions please, if anyone knows; first, what is the maximum length of train that could be accommodated at Village and is SDO then needed at Islip?

Second, how many currently cycle to Bicester North (or were prior to the Oxford line opening)? I thought it was pretty flat around Bicester.

From observation, I'd say a few people cycle but not many. For anyone within the town, it's almost as easy to walk if you aren't going to drive, and there appears to be quite a strong 'drive everywhere' culture. From out of town, many of the routes aren't cycle friendly (the A41 for example) and pretty much everyone will drive.

Maybe more people will cycle when more eco-enthusiasts move into the Elmsbrook eco-town development.

 

[NickBucks]

168/3 units can work over the LUL route from Harrow-on-the-Hill to Amersham as I have travelled from Marylebone to Harrow-on-the-Hill on one. Of course, they don't work that way on many services.

Thank you and apologies for my error.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

No SDO on Chiltern at all. If trains are overlength then the only option is to lock out a coach, or potentially a whole unit. If trains are DOO then that coach has to spend the entire journey locked out. If working with a guard, it can be unlocked again once the train has called at the short platformed station.

BIT and OXP have 9 car platforms. ISP can only take 8, but very unlikely a 9 car service would ever be required to stop there.

It wouldn't take much to install GRP platform extensions to accommodate a full 9 car train anyway, probably in fair weather about 1-2 months, that's if they get decent contractors in.

 

[davetheguard]

Caught the 10.35 ex Marylebone to Oxford Parkway today; a four car set with a 172 leading. I don't know how common these are on the line?

Large amounts of people got off at Bicester Village, just a few of us continued on to Oxford Parkway for the 500 bus to the city centre. Notice the amount of people crossing the footbridge and walking to the shopping centre along the opposite platform in the attached picture.

The train terminated in the down platform (as I believe is usual with one or two exceptions) at Oxford Parkway, but the driver pulled right up to a (new?) stop board on the Oxford side of the footbridge. This is a distinct improvement from my previous trip on the line and means passengers don't have to walk a long way along the shelter-less platform. Unfortunately I didn't take a picture to illustrate this point as we were rushing for the bus.

 

[PHILIPE]

Caught the 10.35 ex Marylebone to Oxford Parkway today; a four car set with a 172 leading. I don't know how common these are on the line?

Large amounts of people got off at Bicester Village, just a few of us continued on to Oxford Parkway for the 500 bus to the city centre. Notice the amount of people crossing the footbridge and walking to the shopping centre along the opposite platform in the attached picture.

The train terminated in the down platform (as I believe is usual with one or two exceptions) at Oxford Parkway, but the driver pulled right up to a (new?) stop board on the Oxford side of the footbridge. This is a distinct improvement from my previous trip on the line and means passengers don't have to walk a long way along the shelter-less platform. Unfortunately I didn't take a picture to illustrate this point as we were rushing for the bus.

Booked for 172. They have several jobs there.

 

[jimm]

Quite a lot of comments about various issues with the train services, along with the 500 bus service at Parkway on the Obrag website in the second story down, headed Replacement bus service from Oxford Parkway - also some responses from Chiltern, both verbally to posters and in a letter someone was sent

http://www.obrag.org.uk

 

[TheBigD]

Just out of idle curiosity, what are the peak/off peak loadings like???

 

[RPM]

The train terminated in the down platform (as I believe is usual with one or two exceptions) at Oxford Parkway, but the driver pulled right up to a (new?) stop board on the Oxford side of the footbridge. This is a distinct improvement from my previous trip on the line and means passengers don't have to walk a long way along the shelter-less platform. Unfortunately I didn't take a picture to illustrate this point as we were rushing for the bus.

The four car stop is indeed situated where you say. Presumably on your last trip your train was a different length? There are different stopping points for trains of 2,3,4,5,6,7,8 & 9 car lengths; all designed to ensure the London end cab aligns with one of the two monitor banks. The least satisfactory one from a passenger point of view is the 5 car stop, which causes the front of the inward service to stop well down the platform, a long way from the footbridge. Unavoidable though; a compromise has to me made somewhere.

 

[midlandred]

Visited Islip yesterday - too cold to hang about for very long.
Photos here taken at the station, and also at the former Mill Lane Crossing.
The station is still a building site in places, including what appears to be an entrance from Bletchingdon Road to the up (to Bicester) platform.
The level crossing at Mill Lane has been replaced by a bridleway leading to an "equestrian bridge" - steps will be needed for photos from the bridge, although they are provided for dismounting or mounting one's horse when crossing the bridge!

 

[davetheguard]

The four car stop is indeed situated where you say. Presumably on your last trip your train was a different length? There are different stopping points for trains of 2,3,4,5,6,7,8 & 9 car lengths; all designed to ensure the London end cab aligns with one of the two monitor banks. The least satisfactory one from a passenger point of view is the 5 car stop, which causes the front of the inward service to stop well down the platform, a long way from the footbridge. Unavoidable though; a compromise has to me made somewhere.

You're right; a 5 or 6 car I think.

Thanks, I understand the logic now. Unfortunately, as you say, not ideal for passengers as they don't really know where to wait; each train could stop in a different place. And of course they don't know about stop boards, so when the driver stops the train at the far Bicester end of Oxford Parkway, some just mutter and think he's being awkward.

A learning curve all round, passengers included!

 

[CyrusWuff]

Visited Islip yesterday - too cold to hang about for very long.
Photos here taken at the station, and also at the former Mill Lane Crossing.

That's just bonkers...I count eight CCTV cameras in the second image alone, and that's without the DOO ones(!)

 

[Andyjs247]

Been some problems at Bicester London Road crossing today with the CCTV monitoring. A CCTV failure apparently. Barriers down for about 20 minutes at about 1pm on Sunday - we got stuck in traffic before doing a u-turn and took a different route into the town. Trains were being cautioned past red signals protecting the crossing at walking pace. Each train is being delayed by up 10 minutes in either direction due to this. Drivers being fairly patient though.

TVP_Bicester – ‏@TVP_Bicester

Due to crossing failure at #londonroad there is no access over the line via vehicle or foot

#9593
12:04 p.m. - 22 Nov 2015

Seems some traffic has been getting through but just seen on Facebook that it was closed and there were police there - this was about 9:30pm

 

[absolutelymilk]

Four more 168s coming next spring, if all goes to plan. Apparently another eight DMU vehicles are also being obtained but the source of these has not yet been made public.

Just to clarify, these are refurbished 168s and then new DMUs?

 

[The Planner]

Doubt if they will be new, just more refurbed and renumbered 170s at a guess.

 

[Wolfie]

Doubt if they will be new, just more refurbed and renumbered 170s at a guess.

Yup, unless they can get 172s from somewhere (which is unlikely as the timing doesn't work for the LO examples). Chiltern going for more 170s will doubtless annoy the usual suspects from the North who have assumed that the new "Northern" franchise will get any available 170s.....

Given the lack of interest shown by Chiltern in the Marylebone to Aylesbury service via Amersham why don't they reduce this to an Aylesbury- Amersham shuttle and move the 165 units freed up to add extra carriages to the Banbury services ? All we have heard from Chiltern over the past few years is London to Birmingham/ London to Oxford/ Silver trains etc. All about the Cinderella line and nothing about the ugly sisters line. There has been no investment in improving travel times for years, the 165 units are looking shabby and are as overcrowded in the peaks as the Banbury service but we never get a mention from Chiltern. In times past outside the peak you used to get the pleasure of a 168 unit but those days are now gone. The 168/3 series are not compatible with LUL lines so we shall not benefit from those either. Of course the fares do not reflect the third class service offering we now get.

Surely Chiltern's franchise specifies the minimum level of service on that line. A TOC breaking franchise commitments doesn't tend to go down too well with DfT.....

 

[swt_passenger]

Their franchise agreement calls for X number of trains per hour to 'Bicester North/Town' as a combined destination - it is 'Flow B in the online version.

I don't think there is any evidence of them not running at least what they are required to once both are added together.

It seems perhaps that people in Bicester haven't realised that many of the Bicester North terminators were temporary.

 

[Wolfie]

Their franchise agreement calls for X number of trains per hour to 'Bicester North/Town' as a combined destination - it is 'Flow B in the online version.

I don't think there is any evidence of them not running at least what they are required to once both are added together.

It seems perhaps that people in Bicester haven't realised that many of the Bicester North terminators were temporary.

I suspect you are right but fear we are at cross-purposes. I was commenting (hence the quote) on a post relating to Chiltern's service from Marylebone to Aylesbury service via Amersham.

 

[67018]

It seems perhaps that people in Bicester haven't realised that many of the Bicester North terminators were temporary.

Most of the complaints I've seen have been about the evening peak journeys. The 1718 and 1818 from Marylebone were not Bicester North terminators, they were fast trains going to Birmingham Moor Street/Stratford upon Avon. The Bicester North terminators still run at those times, but there is now only one fast train to Bicester North between 1700 and 1830.