Chiltern Overcrowding/Poor services

[Mikey C]

A number of the Oxford services are operated by 75mph 165s, which must contribute to the leisurely journey time

 

[JonathanH]

A number of the Oxford services are operated by 75mph 165s, which must contribute to the leisurely journey time

I'd imagine that lots of intermediate stops at the weekend from the consolidation of services has more bearing on the longer journey times.

 

[Jamiescott1]

I commuted from wycombe to Marylebone for 10 years until last year.
I always used to find the peak time trains were a suitable length with very few standing.
The off peak trains were awful, espically thesemi fast brum or Oxford which were often full and standing to wycombe

 

[JonathanH]

I commuted from wycombe to Marylebone for 10 years until last year.
I always used to find the peak time trains were a suitable length with very few standing.
The off peak trains were awful, espically thesemi fast brum or Oxford which were often full and standing to wycombe

A lot easier to keep people on the 'right trains' in the peak when stopping patterns are managed than in the off-peak when they cram aboard the faster trains that have to make stops for connectional purposes.

It really isn't very efficient to have to run a longer train than necessary from Birmingham or Oxford to London just to cater for the loadings at High Wycombe.

 

[E16 Cyclist]

The loss of so many overseas customers heading to Bicester Village is the biggest driver for the downgrading of Oxford services. It doesn’t make much economic sense to run fast services using 168’s when there isn’t the numbers to justify it especially in these times where the dft are seeking to cut costs

 

[Doctor Fegg]

I was considering getting Chiltern between London and Oxford on Saturday. My recollection was that it took just over an hour - and looking back at the 2019 timetables, that seems right (usual journey time seems to be 63 or 64 minutes).

I was somewhat surprised to see that the trains now all appear to take almost 90 minutes, presumably due to all the extra stops, thus turning an attractive alternative to GWR into one I wouldn't even usually consider.

Chiltern's Oxford service isn't really designed as an alternative to GWR from Oxford General.

It's a service from Oxford Parkway - because Oxford General is horrible to get to from anywhere further afield - combined with the former Oxford–Bicester branch line. Sure, there are some people who use it from Oxford General to Marylebone, but only a fraction of those who take the GWR service to Paddington.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A lot easier to keep people on the 'right trains' in the peak when stopping patterns are managed than in the off-peak when they cram aboard the faster trains that have to make stops for connectional purposes.

It really isn't very efficient to have to run a longer train than necessary from Birmingham or Oxford to London just to cater for the loadings at High Wycombe.

It'll be very interesting to see what pattern develops post HS2 when Chiltern's "budget operation" status is likely to be diminished a bit. You could argue that Oxford/Birmingham services should in that case be slowed down for maximum connectivity, and then Wycombe services should be semifast/fast with longer trains to deal with the high loadings from there.

I hear on the grapevine, forget where from, that the Dec 2022 south WCML timetable may involve that sort of approach, i.e. instead of MKC semifasts and Tring stoppers there'll be MKC stoppers and Tring semifasts.

 

[MikeWM]

Chiltern's Oxford service isn't really designed as an alternative to GWR from Oxford General.

It's a service from Oxford Parkway - because Oxford General is horrible to get to from anywhere further afield - combined with the former Oxford–Bicester branch line. Sure, there are some people who use it from Oxford General to Marylebone, but only a fraction of those who take the GWR service to Paddington.

It is worse still for people travelling to/from Oxford Parkway of course, because what was a journey that took an hour is now over 80 minutes - and they don't have an easy alternative.

It is certainly a legitimate debate whether it *ought* to be an alternative to GWR for an end-to-end journey, or rather a service mainly designed for serving intermediate locations that really isn't optimised for end-to-end use, especially at weekends. Cambridge to Liverpool Street would be an obvious example of the latter.

But I do believe that it was advertised and portrayed as the former pre-Covid; certainly that was the impression I had of it. Now it is the latter, and the change seems to have just slipped through almost by accident 'because of Covid', as much else has.

 

[The Planner]

I hear on the grapevine, forget where from, that the Dec 2022 south WCML timetable may involve that sort of approach, i.e. instead of MKC semifasts and Tring stoppers there'll be MKC stoppers and Tring semifasts.

That is correct.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

It is worse still for people travelling to/from Oxford Parkway of course, because what was a journey that took an hour is now over 80 minutes - and they don't have an easy alternative.

It's not that bad, is it? A quick look at brtimes suggests 70 minutes is the average up service from Parkway, and down services are a fair bit quicker.

 

[RPM]

In terms of stock, there is currently 2 165s out of use, and 4 168s out of use.
165025 & 168107 have remained out of service for many months, although 168107 has been moved recently
Then they have 168005 out of service because of fatality damage sustained recently.
168215 is at Crewe, being repaired
168329 has gone back to Wolverton for futher work
and finally, 165004 is still in for Hybrid conversion

so in total, thats 18 carriages out of use

Plus 4 x 172s gone to WMR, plus the 7-car slam door mk 3 set has gone, so we're actually looking at 33 vehicles short.

 

[MikeWM]

It's not that bad, is it? A quick look at brtimes suggests 70 minutes is the average up service from Parkway, and down services are a fair bit quicker.

Weekdays, yes, but on Saturdays there's only one (at stupidly-early-o'clock) up service that takes less than 80 minutes. 76-79 minutes for down services.

 

[67018]

Plus 4 x 172s gone to WMR, plus the 7-car slam door mk 3 set has gone, so we're actually looking at 33 vehicles short.

Ah, that explains a lot. I was wondering where all the stock had gone - peak trains that used to be 7 or 8 car are still only 4 and are now rammed midweek. Weekday mid to late evening trains were always very busy - packed 3 car trains were not unusual pre pandemic - and it's at least as bad now. Not unusual for people to be standing to/from as far out as Bicester or even Banbury. That, plus slower running times and additional stops is hardly a situation that's going to encourage many people back to commuting.

All that effort lengthening selected platforms to take 9 car trains seems a long time ago now.

 

[sammyg901]

Ah, that explains a lot. I was wondering where all the stock had gone - peak trains that used to be 7 or 8 car are still only 4 and are now rammed midweek. Weekday mid to late evening trains were always very busy - packed 3 car trains were not unusual pre pandemic - and it's at least as bad now. Not unusual for people to be standing to/from as far out as Bicester or even Banbury. That, plus slower running times and additional stops is hardly a situation that's going to encourage many people back to commuting.

All that effort lengthening selected platforms to take 9 car trains seems a long time ago now.

I left Marylebone at around 10pm last Thursday. My Aylesbury via Amersham was a packed 3 car 168 as these services are now hourly. They'd be better off making these 2 carriage first stop Amersham and letting tfl cater for the London stops

I watched Oxford board as a very busy 2 car 165 and the Birmingham train (with calls at High Wycombe/Haddenham&Thame/Bicester so carrying a large post office drinks crowd) was going to be a 2 car 168. So not a comfortable journey on the cards for anyone

I did notice some 9 car trains out last weekend so at least that is something

 

[185143]

I left Marylebone at around 10pm last Thursday. My Aylesbury via Amersham was a packed 3 car 168 as these services are now hourly. They'd be better off making these 2 carriage first stop Amersham and letting tfl cater for the London stops

I watched Oxford board as a very busy 2 car 165 and the Birmingham train (with calls at High Wycombe/Haddenham&Thame/Bicester so carrying a large post office drinks crowd) was going to be a 2 car 168. So not a comfortable journey on the cards for anyone

I did notice some 9 car trains out last weekend so at least that is something

Or at the very least, advertised as first stop Amersham. I'd expect there's more than sufficient capacity on the Metropolitan line.

 

[njr001]

It's not surprising that many Met line passengers now use Chiltern, since with the exception the peaks, Amersham and Chesham trains are now normally all stations considerably extending journey times. Whilst one may often have to stand Aylesbury services they are very rarely crush loaded I find it preferable to stand for 25 minutes than take 45 minutes and possibly have a seat. It would be helpful if Chiltern & TFL could plan there timetables in conjunction with each other.

 

[Vanmanyo]

This was on the agreement of the new franchise, which mentions class 175s in the Chiltern fleet? Im not sure if there is any other details on this as of such but thought it could be an update idk.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Wow. Good spot.

 

[50002Superb]

In terms of stock, there is currently 2 165s out of use, and 4 168s out of use.
165025 & 168107 have remained out of service for many months, although 168107 has been moved recently
Then they have 168005 out of service because of fatality damage sustained recently.
168215 is at Crewe, being repaired
168329 has gone back to Wolverton for futher work
and finally, 165004 is still in for Hybrid conversion

so in total, thats 18 carriages out of use

Out of interest, are you able to confirm the location of 168107 please?

I am having a day out on the Chilterns on Saturday and need that one for sight (as well as 215 and 329!)

 

[CyrusWuff]

Worth noting that, due to WCML Engineering Work at the weekend (Milton Keynes Central - Rugby and Rugby/Leamington Spa - Birmingham International), Chiltern services to/from Birmingham will be extremely busy (and most won't call at Kings Sutton, Hatton, or Lapworth due to short platforms.)

There will also be no Chiltern services on the Met Line, with buses from Beaconsfield - Amersham - Aylesbury Vale Parkway (calling all stations.)

 

[CR165022]

Out of interest, are you able to confirm the location of 168107 please?

I am having a day out on the Chilterns on Saturday and need that one for sight (as well as 215 and 329!)

107 is currently sat in the siding ajdacent to the station at Aylesbury.
as for 215 and 329, 215 *might* be out, but 329 wont be

 

[50002Superb]

Understood, thank you @CR165022

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Jun 2022 ==

Worth noting that, due to WCML Engineering Work at the weekend (Milton Keynes Central - Rugby and Rugby/Leamington Spa - Birmingham International), Chiltern services to/from Birmingham will be extremely busy (and most won't call at Kings Sutton, Hatton, or Lapworth due to short platforms.)

There will also be no Chiltern services on the Met Line, with buses from Beaconsfield - Amersham - Aylesbury Vale Parkway (calling all stations.)

Yeah I’d seen that but thank you. My plan is:

DBY 06.10 BNS 06.48

BMS 07.16 LMS 07.49 Cl.68

LMS 08.25 MYB 09.53 Cl.68

MYB 10.53 AYL 12.18

AYL 13.33 MYB 15.05

MYB 15.37 LMS 16.56

Stratford Shuttle arrives at 17.14

LMS 17.23 BNS 17.53 or

LMS 17.27 BMS 18.09

BNS 20.03 DBY 20.39

 

[The Planner]

Worth noting that, due to WCML Engineering Work at the weekend (Milton Keynes Central - Rugby and Rugby/Leamington Spa - Birmingham International), Chiltern services to/from Birmingham will be extremely busy (and most won't call at Kings Sutton, Hatton, or Lapworth due to short platforms.)

There will also be no Chiltern services on the Met Line, with buses from Beaconsfield - Amersham - Aylesbury Vale Parkway (calling all stations.)

Some of those works may still go due to the strikes.