Chiltern new trains?

[Energy]

Chiltern's franchise is ending in a year (and a bit) time and I think they will want to replace the 165s.

They could cascade 168s onto these routes and replace the 168s, but what with?

Or could they decide to replace the entire fleet?

Chiltern have the opportunity to think relatively large as even if they only replace mainline sets they still have 30-40 trains on order. And if they replace everything then it's going to be about 70-80 trains.

Another concern is electrics, Chiltern will be the only one without wires but they do have some sections with the London underground stuff so could they go with bi-modes with equipment to use the London underground stuff.

Also Chiltern are built on efficiency, largely with little time spent at stations and lack of first class.

I wonder if Bombardier could make a bi-mode Movia? An 'S' stock with a better door arrangement (either the current centre door removed or 2 doors in the current positions of the 168s) would be great as it could use London Underground equipment for power when coming out of London and diesel when it runs out.

They would also have little time spent at stations with the level floor access, and they could change the emergency exits on the front to gangways between units (like the ones on the 350s) so multiple can be connected together. Obviously the interior would have to be different and more suitable, with toilets installed.

 

[whhistle]

I'd be surprised if they don't replace all 16x units.

As others have thought, the 22x may be looking for a home soon. However the current favourite home for those trains is Cross Country. Plus, people may see them as Virgin cast offs, which I suspect Chiltern wouldn't want - their marketing is all about how they're better than Virgin.

What they replace the 22x's with though is anyone's guess.
Would be neater to have the next gen 710 units but Stadler may be looking for work.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

Chiltern share very little track with London Underground. Between Moor Park and Amersham on the Aylesbury route and none at all on the main line to Bicester, Oxford and Birmingham.

 

[Energy]

Chiltern share very little track with London Underground. Between Moor Park and Amersham on the Aylesbury route and none at all on the main line to Bicester, Oxford and Birmingham.

True but it still leaves Marlybone being the only London station with only diesels. I wonder if they will electrify even part of the way to clear London.
Also these trains will be around for a while so they should have the capability for electric operation.

 

[JonathanH]

Chiltern's franchise is ending in a year (and a bit) time and I think they will want to replace the 165s.

They could cascade 168s onto these route

Not convinced that makes sense - 165s are suited to most of the 'local' services they run on, 168s to 'longer distance' services - maybe the balance is wrong but it seems reasonable to have different fleets.

True but it still leaves Marlybone being the only London station with only diesels.

There was an announcement about fitting a 165 with a hybrid drive which might prolong their usefulness even when there is a desire to reduce emissions.

https://www.railwaygazette.com/news/single-view/view/hybrid-dmu-projects-announced.html

 

[Railwaysceptic]

True but it still leaves Marlybone being the only London station with only diesels. I wonder if they will electrify even part of the way to clear London.
Also these trains will be around for a while so they should have the capability for electric operation.

Unless there's some political string pulling, it seems obvious that completing electrification of the MML should take top priority, with the Great Western running a close second. The demand for electrification of Manchester to York will also have more support than the Chiltern Main Line.

 

[PeterC]

Chiltern share very little track with London Underground. Between Moor Park and Amersham on the Aylesbury route and none at all on the main line to Bicester, Oxford and Birmingham.

Harrow to Amersham surely?
As much as I prefer a 168 if I can get a seat the 165s are far better suited to the peak Wycomber and Aylesbury traffic.

 

[si404]

Harrow to Amersham is 4th rail electrified and owned by LU. The fast lines see Met line trains.

I wonder if Bombardier could make a bi-mode Movia? An 'S' stock with a better door arrangement (either the current centre door removed or 2 doors in the current positions of the 168s) would be great as it could use London Underground equipment for power when coming out of London and diesel when it runs out.

They would also have little time spent at stations with the level floor access, and they could change the emergency exits on the front to gangways between units (like the ones on the 350s) so multiple can be connected together. Obviously the interior would have to be different and more suitable, with toilets installed.

You forgot "needs a top speed higher than 100km/h". Additionally, S stock lengths would mean a massive increase in capacity - nearly 4 times the length for some services!

I'd argue there's easier ways of using the electric traction for Harrow-Amersham that building Chiltern versions of S Stock, but also that its somewhat of a waste of effort to bother trying in the first place unless more is electrified.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

Harrow to Amersham surely?

Yes, you're quite right. I normally travel off-peak when those tracks are used exclusively by Chiltern trains. I forgot they were electrified.

 

[swt_passenger]

Eventual electrification on Chiltern’s Amersham route wouldn't be technically difficult. They’d just have to use dual voltage stock on DC within the LU limits in either direction, (with the LU section operating in the +750v and 0V mode rather than the normal +500V -250V mode, just like at Richmond and Wimbledon, or on the DC lines). Outside the LU electrified area conventional AC OHLE would be needed. Power changeover between AC and DC in the relevant station platforms.

 

[Meerkat]

wouldnt you have to have tri-mode (ac/dc/diesel) unless you are going to wait for the whole line to be electrified.....in which case we need to talk about what can be cascaded in until then.