Chiltern Mk5s: could Chiltern order Class 88 locos and/or Mk5 buffet vehicles?

[FrontSideBus]

Moderator note: Split from

Chiltern MK5s Starting 2026 (non speculative updates thread)

Chiltern have now announced this publicly. Notably it seems 1st is being retained as a paid-for upgrade, which is surprising given that they abandoned that with the Mk3s. I'm surprised they don't reseat that coach to Standard to up capacity. I suspect this also confirms they will have guards...

www.railforums.co.uk

Could they whack 88's on for running under wires?

 

[MerlinRail 804]

Could they whack 88's on for running under wires?

Little bit of a lack of wires for that at the moment

 

[43096]

Could they whack 88's on for running under wires?

They'd need modifying in the same way as the 68s have been. Plus full electrification!

 

[HJ10001]

Do you think that Chiltern might order MK5 buffet coaches? As the MK3 sets have a buffet/shop coach and the original TransPennine Express coaches don't have a shop.

 

[43096]

Do you think that Chiltern might order MK5 buffet coaches? As the MK3 sets have a buffet/shop coach and the original TransPennine Express coaches don't have a shop.

No chance.

 

[stevieinselby]

Could they whack 88's on for running under wires?

As there is currently no plan for electrification of the Chiltern line, 88s wouldn't get very far! More likely that they would go for 99s, as this would allow them to make use of staged electrification as and when it comes on stream, as it is likely it would take several years from the first section being ready to go live to the full route being done.

 

[BerkshireRails]

I think the 100mph 99s would be a better fit to Chiltern as they are a Co-Co rather than a Bo-Bo. The 99s have a more powerful design than the 88s which would allow them to work unelectrified sections with reasonable timings which a class 88 would be unable to do.

 

[Yorkshire09876]

Do you think that Chiltern might order MK5 buffet coaches? As the MK3 sets have a buffet/shop coach and the original TransPennine Express coaches don't have a shop.

They abandoned use of those on the Mk3s a few years back when all catering was removed from Chiltern services. They therefore have no use for a buffet in the MK5a sets.

 

[The Planner]

I think the 100mph 99s would be a better fit to Chiltern as they are a Co-Co rather than a Bo-Bo. The 99s have a more powerful design than the 88s which would allow them to work unelectrified sections with reasonable timings which a class 88 would be unable to do.

Its all rather moot at the moment as the Chiltern isn't going to see wires in the next 10-15 years.

 

[2001olib]

If/when bi modes become viable for chiltern wouldnt modified class 93's be more suitable than 88's due to their better diesel performance. Not forgetting their additional batteries

 

[43096]

If/when bi modes become viable for chiltern wouldnt modified class 93's be more suitable than 88's due to their better diesel performance. Not forgetting their additional batteries

Those 93s with their miracle capabilities away from the wires make another appearance! They’d be about as much use an asthmatic ant with heavy shopping for Chiltern away from the wires.

 

[Yorkshire09876]

If/when bi modes become viable for chiltern wouldnt modified class 93's be more suitable than 88's due to their better diesel performance. Not forgetting their additional batteries

There aren't enough of them, and by the time Chiltern gets wired (if it ever happens) they will be old technology so Stadler won't be building any more. Plus they aren't powerful enough on diesel other than possibly for short distances off the wires.

 

[BerkshireRails]

There aren't enough of them, and by the time Chiltern gets wired (if it ever happens) they will be old technology so Stadler won't be building any more. Plus they aren't powerful enough on diesel other than possibly for short distances off the wires.

I see the 99s being built in massive orders to replace the 66s and there 2400hp diesel engine while not as powerful as a 68s 3000hp diesel engine it is still more than capable for the Chilterns, as it would allow for the higher speed sections to be done first.

 

[Harlequinuk]

There aren't enough of them, and by the time Chiltern gets wired (if it ever happens) they will be old technology so Stadler won't be building any more. Plus they aren't powerful enough on diesel other than possibly for short distances off the wires.

From what ive seen, the 93 on diesel is basically a CLass 25 power wise, and add the batteries (which can recharge when coasting), makes it a Class 33. Thats plenty of power, as one climbed shap with 1800 tons .

 

[Yorkshire09876]

From what ive seen, the 93 on diesel is basically a CLass 25 power wise, and add the batteries (which can recharge when coasting), makes it a Class 33. Thats plenty of power, as one climbed shap with 1800 tons .

They also have to supply ETS to the train, which will use a fair bit of the available power.

 

[Belfastmarty]

From what ive seen, the 93 on diesel is basically a CLass 25 power wise, and add the batteries (which can recharge when coasting), makes it a Class 33. Thats plenty of power, as one climbed shap with 1800 tons .

Were those tests up Shap in diesel or electric mode? I was under the impression the latter, but happy to be corrected. In hybrid mode the 93s produce 1700 hp (for 10 mins until the battery is exhausted), then 1200hp on pure diesel. Both of which are a substantial downgrade on the 68's 3800hp. And as @Yorkshire09876 says thay have to supply ETS as well.

 

[BerkshireRails]

Were those tests up Shap in diesel or electric mode? I was under the impression the latter, but happy to be corrected. In hybrid mode the 93s produce 1700 hp (for 10 mins until the battery is exhausted), then 1200hp on pure diesel. Both of which are a substantial downgrade on the 68's 3800hp. And as @Yorkshire09876 says thay have to supply ETS as well.

Green Signals made a video about the 93s which said the 10 minute run time for the battery isn't true, based on my interpretation of the video.