Chiltern loco...

[TSR :D]

It's so long, I think it's longer than tube train!

How many cars are there on the Chiltern's loco?

 

[ainsworth74]

67+5Mk3s+DVT is the formation I think so it's 7 vehicles long (including the locomotive). Also I wouldn't say it's particularly long, there are longer formations out there, EC HSTs are 2+9 (2 class 43 powercars and 9 Mk3 trailers) so 11 vehicles long for instance. You also get 12-car trains on the various commuter operators in London and the Scottish Sleepers are something like 15 vehicles or so.

 

[TSR :D]

Yeah, I was so used to seeing 3/4 cars, that's why I thought Chiltern's loco was long.

Also, is 12 car train the longest train that is in regular service?

 

[Nym]

Until the 11 car pendos come on line yes...

11 car pendo is longer than a 12 car 450 or 350
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Unless of course you count Eurostar

 

[ainsworth74]

Until the 11 car pendos come on line yes...

11 car pendo is longer than a 12 car 450 or 350

Unless of course you count Eurostar

Even without Eurostar the Scottish Sleepers will beat out the 11-car Pendo surely?

 

[Nym]

I'm discounting sleepers as 'non-regular'... honest

 

[ainsworth74]

I'm discounting sleepers as 'non-regular'... honest

Riiiight...

 

[oversteer]

I could be wrong but I think the Chiltern mixed livery set has 7 carriages now, so 9 in total

The silver ones are 2+5

 

[Eagle]

...and the Scottish Sleepers are something like 15 vehicles or so.

Lowland is usually 17 vehicles (loco + 2 seated + 2 lounge + 12 beds, no DVT); I forget how long the Highland one is (it doesn't split evenly).

373/1s are 20 vehicles (technically two 10s in multiple).

 

[SprinterMan]

Lowland is usually 17 vehicles (loco + 2 seated + 2 lounge + 12 beds, no DVT); I forget how long the Highland one is (it doesn't split evenly).

373/1s are 20 vehicles (technically two 10s in multiple).

The highland sleeper is 4 carriages to Fort William and 6 apiece to Aberdeen and Inverness so also 16 carriages, 17 with loco.

 

[NIMBUS]

I could be wrong but I think the Chiltern mixed livery set has 7 carriages now, so 9 in total

The silver ones are 2+5

The Banbury set is (and always has been, apart from a couple of weeks when it was short of a vehicle, following a failure) loco+6xMkIIIs+DVT.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

The Banbury set is 7 carriages + Loco & DVT now mate.

 

[sprinterguy]

The highland sleeper is 4 carriages to Fort William and 6 apiece to Aberdeen and Inverness so also 16 carriages, 17 with loco.

The seated cars for the Fort William portion don't run from Euston though, only the 2/3 sleeping cars do. They're essentially a portion of the Aberdeen rake in the Highland Sleeper as far as Edinburgh, so that the formations of both the lowland and highland sleepers on the WCML is the same.

 

[route:oxford]

The Banbury set is 7 carriages + Loco & DVT now mate.

Is that coming close to the max that the 67 can deal with and maintain timetabling?

(And is the full 7+2 accommodated by the plaforms en-route?)

 

[Big Chris]

They have an ets rating of 66, I would imagine that would be the limiting factor rather than the length of the train. They can happily haul a 12 carriage emu and barriers as seen during the decommissioning of the Mark 1 3rd rail emu fleets. They also haul 10+ Mk 2s on charters.

 

[ainsworth74]

They have an ets rating of 66, I would imagine that would be the limiting factor rather than the length of the train. They can happily haul a 12 carriage emu and barriers as seen during the decommissioning of the Mark 1 3rd rail emu fleets.

But how quickly can they get that load (including passengers) up to speed? What is the effective top speed when hauling that sort of load? That's what route: oxford is getting at, I have no doubt that a 67 could haul a 12-car train but would it be able to accelerate quick enough to keep up with the present timetable?

 

[The Planner]

Interesting, I wasn't aware they were sticking extras on, I bet they are at the limit of keeping a 168 path with that. A 12 car would never do it, let alone have the platform space anyway.

 

[Nym]

Could always double head it with two 67s

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Is that coming close to the max that the 67 can deal with and maintain timetabling?

(And is the full 7+2 accommodated by the plaforms en-route?)

I would imagine so, though I haven't driven it. Dwell times are still the biggest problem with slam door stock though. As for the platforms? Most "mainline" platforms between Snow Hill and Marylebone can accommodate 8 cars as a result of Evergreen 2, so 7+2 isnt a problem if the stop board is in the right place. The Banbury set has the same stops in both directions; Banbury (obviously) Bicester North, Haddenham & Thame, Princes Risborough and Marylebone which are all fine. There was a stop order on the 18:13 for High Wycombe last week following the cancellation of another train in the evening peak, it was announced at Marylebone but was withdrawn almost immediately as the down platform hasnt been cleared for that length of train. I think you could squeeze in with the DVT hanging over at the back or with a stop board beyond the end of the platform (which would present a problem if the signal at the end of the platform was at danger) but I wouldnt put my house on it.

 

[jopsuk]

presumably with the AAR MW controls, if the DVT was replaced with a second 67 they could top & tail with both locos being used (like the 27s on the Edinburgh-Glasgow or for that matter an HST)? Talking theoretical in technical terms, not saying this is a sensible operational idea...

Will the "mixed" rake be refurbished and upgraded in the same way as the silver rakes?

 

[Nym]

You could indeed T+T with two 67s, both providing power, would be fun to see just how long they'd be willing to go, considering SDO is easy enough on Mk3s.

 

[TDK]

I would imagine so, though I haven't driven it. Dwell times are still the biggest problem with slam door stock though. As for the platforms? Most "mainline" platforms between Snow Hill and Marylebone can accommodate 8 cars as a result of Evergreen 2, so 7+2 isnt a problem if the stop board is in the right place. The Banbury set has the same stops in both directions; Banbury (obviously) Bicester North, Haddenham & Thame, Princes Risborough and Marylebone which are all fine. There was a stop order on the 18:13 for High Wycombe last week following the cancellation of another train in the evening peak, it was announced at Marylebone but was withdrawn almost immediately as the down platform hasnt been cleared for that length of train. I think you could squeeze in with the DVT hanging over at the back or with a stop board beyond the end of the platform (which would present a problem if the signal at the end of the platform was at danger) but I wouldnt put my house on it.

Princes Risborough is tight and I would never stop in advance of a signal even if green
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

You could indeed T+T with two 67s, both providing power, would be fun to see just how long they'd be willing to go, considering SDO is easy enough on Mk3s.

I have driven 2 x 67 powered up with 4 coaches and a DVT and they fly.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Interesting, I wasn't aware they were sticking extras on, I bet they are at the limit of keeping a 168 path with that. A 12 car would never do it, let alone have the platform space anyway.

With a 67 and 5 coaches + DVT the 67 is equal pace using up to notch 7, when using notch 8 they leave a 168 behind especially up gradient. I would imagine with 7 coaches they will cope with the paths easily but will use a lot more fuel with Notch 8 having to be used a lot more frequently and you are correct a 12 car would never keep up
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

presumably with the AAR MW controls, if the DVT was replaced with a second 67 they could top & tail with both locos being used (like the 27s on the Edinburgh-Glasgow or for that matter an HST)? Talking theoretical in technical terms, not saying this is a sensible operational idea...

Will the "mixed" rake be refurbished and upgraded in the same way as the silver rakes?

I am not certain but they may need a brake coach that will defeat the object of disposing of the DVT
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I have no doubt that a 67 could haul a 12-car train but would it be able to accelerate quick enough to keep up with the present timetable?

It would have no chance
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

They have an ets rating of 66, I would imagine that would be the limiting factor rather than the length of the train. They can happily haul a 12 carriage emu and barriers as seen during the decommissioning of the Mark 1 3rd rail emu fleets. They also haul 10+ Mk 2s on charters.

Mk3's are heavier

 

[jopsuk]

Doh, forgot about the lack of mrk3 brake coaches- there's only the three used by the Night Riviera, aren't there?

 

[sprinterguy]

Doh, forgot about the lack of mrk3 brake coaches- there's only the three used by the Night Riviera, aren't there?

Indeed there are, originally built for the Manchester Pullman (and other similar WCML services) along with the Mark 3B FOs to replace the mark 2s that had been employed on those duties since new in the late sixties.

 

[87015]

Doh, forgot about the lack of mrk3 brake coaches- there's only the three used by the Night Riviera, aren't there?

Wrexham ran without a Mk3 brake for a good while when it was top and tail so it is not a show stopper...

 

[Yew]

Could always double head it with two 67s

I don't think hydro would like the idea of tow 67's together. The rails might explode :/

 

[Nym]

I don't think hydro would like the idea of tow 67's together. The rails might explode :/

No more so that a 92 at full wack pulling freight... About the same amount of power.

 

[HSTEd]

Wouldn't two of the new Eurolights weigh about the same as a Cl67+DVT combination........

 

[Nym]

They would indeed, the're also more powerful, and if you messed around with the design slightly, you could make them even more powerful

Oh, and also, they can shut down all but one engine that can provide ETH and use much less fuel while waiting in stations. (Thanks to the Eurolight having four generators IIRC)

 

[ainsworth74]

It would have no chance

I thought as much, thanks for the confirmation TDK

This is why I like this forum you can get information from people who have actually driven the trains you're talking about!