Chiltern consultation on September 2015 timetable

[Tetchytyke]

I suspect they are listening, but can't please everyone so something has to give.

I don't think they are listening at all, because the pound signs have lit up in their eyes for all those Oxford passengers heading into London. Islip is an inconvenience they'd rather be without, which leads me on to...

Nobody's suggesting closing the station

I'm pretty sure that's what was said when the Trent Valley was upgraded in the early 2000s. Barlaston, Wedgwood, Polesworth and Norton Bridge were all effectively closed. But not officially closed, even if three of the stations are inaccesible, so everyone got to keep their promises too.

Maybe I'm a cynic, but I think cutting the train service so dramatically is clearly a prelude to a Parliamentary service at Islip on the grounds of "nobody uses it". And with a Parliamentary service Chiltern can claim, with a straight face, that they won't be closing Islip station.

 

[67018]

Bicester Town will have a good service as well, so the town doesn't really lose out. It just means passengers will have to pay attention to times before choosing which station to go to.

Fine in theory, and that's probably their thinking. But as I pointed out before, the stations are the best part of a mile apart, and Town is qute a distance for a fair bit of the population - not to mention the whacking great 'Eco town' they have started building on the opposite side of town. It would be ironic if residents of the Eco town had to drive to the station!

I don't think they are listening at all, because the pound signs have lit up in their eyes for all those Oxford passengers heading into London. Islip is an inconvenience they'd rather be without, which leads me on to...

I'm pretty sure that's what was said when the Trent Valley was upgraded in the early 2000s. Barlaston, Wedgwood, Polesworth and Norton Bridge were all effectively closed. But not officially closed, even if three of the stations are inaccesible, so everyone got to keep their promises too.

Maybe I'm a cynic, but I think cutting the train service so dramatically is clearly a prelude to a Parliamentary service at Islip on the grounds of "nobody uses it". And with a Parliamentary service Chiltern can claim, with a straight face, that they won't be closing Islip station.

I think we have degenerated into a semantic debate as to the meaning of 'listening' here. But there does seem to be general agreement that they have decided not to prioritise Islip. It's just a case of differing views as to how avoidable that is.
It's quite possible that they would like to close the station, but that argument is not going to get much traction in the timetable consultation since they will just deny any such intention (and point to their franchise requirements).

Southbound connections at Leamington Spa will be an adjacent platform switch as always, from the down facing up bay to the up main.

I'm a bit confused here, if someone's going from London to Stratford upon Avon, which leg of their journey is 'northbound' at Leamington? - given that both Marylebone and Stratford are south of there!

 

[The Planner]

Would seem odd to run Islip down for the future, especially when 194m platforms are being put in and the signals are spaced to allow them to be extended further than that.

 

[jimm]

Nobody's suggesting closing the station, and the Haddenham and Kidlington examples you quote are cases where the situation changed thanks to significant residential development. Cherwell council seem keen on building houses by the thousand, so that's maybe the answer.

Incidentally, how do you see things developing once East West rail is up and running? A potential for more trains for Islip (since there won't be any conflicts at the London end to worry about) or increased demand for longer distance services creating another threat?

(As a side note, interesting that Charlbury came up in the discussion, as the first time I used that station it was to walk to... Islip!)

At Kidlington the development of houses has made no difference at all, despite the county council having a long-standing vague plan to reopen the old station, rather like its vague plan to reopen Wantage Road. Even now Chiltern's interest is not really in serving Kidlington, as can be seen in its choice of name for the parkway station at Water Eaton, which leaves out Kidlington and, rather like the existing central station, is a hard place to get to from much of the city of Oxford at busy times of the day.

As I said previously there is no provision in the draft Cherwell local plan for housing development in Islip, apart from the odd bit of infilling. The focus up to 2031 is on Bicester's dubiously-named eco-town, Banbury and the site of the former US Air Force base at Upper Heyford.

And as I also said previously, I expect East West Rail will be seized upon by Chiltern as an opportunity to get out of any obligation to serve Islip, unless some sort of steady peak traffic to London and back emerges from next year to justify the odd Islip call by its trains, same as I confidently expect that if a revived GW London-Stratford service ever comes to pass, Chiltern would hope to get out of any expectation to serve Stratford as well.
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Would seem odd to run Islip down for the future, especially when 194m platforms are being put in and the signals are spaced to allow them to be extended further than that.

Ascott-under-Wychwood got a shiny new platform and an extension to the other one in 2011 during the Cotswold Line redoubling. And until now has got precisely no more regular trains than called there previously, unless you count the odd pre-Christmas special Saturday stop for shoppers. There might finally be some extra regular services from next year, but nothing is confirmed as yet. Even then, will they be at times likely to make use of the train a more viable proposition for more people in the village, or will they stick with the drive to Charlbury?

At Islip the fear is that the train will no longer be a viable option if Chiltern proceed as proposed - and having 194m platforms won't matter if the train service offered is not fit for purpose.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

I'm a bit confused here, if someone's going from London to Stratford upon Avon, which leg of their journey is 'northbound' at Leamington? - given that both Marylebone and Stratford are south of there!

I think I got the wrong end of the stick, I was referring to the reverse journey (Stratford upon Avon to London) which of course would leave most passengers needing to make the same change, just in the opposite direction. This is where I get the cross platform northbound connection from as people do travel from those stations to Coventry and Birmingham International.

If you are starting at Marylebone then yeah, it is a bit tighter. I'm not sure what the connection is if you double back at Solihull. The XX:40 Snow Hill train off of London doesn't offer a hugely attractive connection time either, it's 30+ minutes.

That said, I guess Chiltern know the passenger flows better than any of us do because they can monitor ticket sales. I do know that London - Stratford upon Avon is very seasonal, summer Saturdays can be busy with 100+ people per train making the trip but at other times it's extremely quiet. I do think that most residents of Stratford upon Avon using the train tend to travel into Birmingham, it will be interesting to see the medium to long term effects of the new station on the edge of town and the half hourly service into Brum. I would like to see the connection to Honeyborne and the Cotswold line reopened, as others have said London - Oxford - Stratford just makes a lot more sense, but that aint going to happen any time within the next ten to twenty years, is it?

 

[jimm]

I think I got the wrong end of the stick, I was referring to the reverse journey (Stratford upon Avon to London) which of course would leave most passengers needing to make the same change, just in the opposite direction. This is where I get the cross platform northbound connection from as people do travel from those stations to Coventry and Birmingham International.

If you are starting at Marylebone then yeah, it is a bit tighter. I'm not sure what the connection is if you double back at Solihull. The XX:40 Snow Hill train off of London doesn't offer a hugely attractive connection time either, it's 30+ minutes.

That said, I guess Chiltern know the passenger flows better than any of us do because they can monitor ticket sales. I do know that London - Stratford upon Avon is very seasonal, summer Saturdays can be busy with 100+ people per train making the trip but at other times it's extremely quiet. I do think that most residents of Stratford upon Avon using the train tend to travel into Birmingham, it will be interesting to see the medium to long term effects of the new station on the edge of town and the half hourly service into Brum. I would like to see the connection to Honeyborne and the Cotswold line reopened, as others have said London - Oxford - Stratford just makes a lot more sense, but that aint going to happen any time within the next ten to twenty years, is it?

If the DfT had not made such a pig's ear of franchising then a London-Oxford-Stratford service via Banbury might already be a commitment under a new franchise agreement. That possibility was there in black and white in the invitation to tender two years ago and such a service ran for 12 years from 1993-2005, though FGW are probably grateful not to have to run it at the moment with all the demands being made on their rolling stock.

As cards are being played very close to people's chests in the FGW/DfT talks on a further extension to take the franchise through electrification and bring in new timetables and service patterns, such a service may well figure in those discussions. And could be in place a lot earlier than waiting for Long Marston-Stratford to reopen.