Chiltern Class 68s Withdrawal - what should Chiltern replace them with?

[Meerkat]

Given that Hitachi already have the 80x platform, I see no particular reason they couldn't easily do one with a 24m vehicle (already the plan for the MML), a blunter nose (perhaps with the AT200 gangway) and 110mph top speed.

I assumed it would be based on a non-express platform, or are they all roughly the same anyway?
I think it would have to be gangwayed for Waterloo - when its busy there is an awful lot of walking down the train looking for seats (until you get to the door that wont open and go "ah, bother, guess we are standing")
What are the Marylebone trains like - is the last unit utterly rammed with the last minute arrivals who dont have time to walk down the platform?

 

[Mikey C]

I assumed it would be based on a non-express platform, or are they all roughly the same anyway?
I think it would have to be gangwayed for Waterloo - when its busy there is an awful lot of walking down the train looking for seats (until you get to the door that wont open and go "ah, bother, guess we are standing")
What are the Marylebone trains like - is the last unit utterly rammed with the last minute arrivals who dont have time to walk down the platform?

Often yes, not helped by the short (for London) units and the long distance to platforms 4, 5 and 6

 

[Bletchleyite]

Often yes, not helped by the short (for London) units and the long distance to platforms 4, 5 and 6

Probably AT200 based, but it's just a variation on a theme, there is clear visual similarity.

I'm not sure how much difference gangways make to crowding at the rear out of trains from London. It happens on the WCML and other than Avanti's double Voyagers and the small number of 319s everything is gangwayed and has been for years. People are just too lazy to walk through or it doesn't occur to them that it'll be any better further forward. On many occasions I've been on LNR 12-car services from Euston where the coach adjacent to the ramp was full and standing, but the front (or very rear, as people don't think to go down the ramp and back on themselves) was nearly empty.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Dec 2021 ==

Something that looks like a 385 with room for self-propulsion.

(I still maintain that Chiltern has an adequate fleet to just bin off the 68s without any replacements.)

This is probably true with reduced commuting. The "what next" is probably more usefully directed at "what once the wires go to Wycombe and London fully bans diesel transport".

 

[Meerkat]

I'm not sure how much difference gangways make to crowding at the rear out of trains from London. It happens on the WCML and other than Avanti's double Voyagers and the small number of 319s everything is gangwayed and has been for years. People are just too lazy to walk through or it doesn't occur to them that it'll be any better further forward. On many occasions I've been on LNR 12-car services from Euston where the coach adjacent to the ramp was full and standing, but the front (or very rear, as people don't think to go down the ramp and back on themselves) was nearly empty.

On busy trains out of Waterloo there is a constant stream of people walking up the train - it gets quite annoying as it carries on long after the train leaves.
The issue of the passengers not knowing is solving by displays like those on the 720s that show which coaches are busy/not busy.

 

[Mikey C]

I'm not sure how much difference gangways make to crowding at the rear out of trains from London. It happens on the WCML and other than Avanti's double Voyagers and the small number of 319s everything is gangwayed and has been for years. People are just too lazy to walk through or it doesn't occur to them that it'll be any better further forward. On many occasions I've been on LNR 12-car services from Euston where the coach adjacent to the ramp was full and standing, but the front (or very rear, as people don't think to go down the ramp and back on themselves) was nearly empty.

Terminus Stations where the entrance to the platform don't help things. People who are only there just in time will have to jump on the first door or so, joining those sitting there because it's nearer their exit at the other end, and lazy people who couldn't be bothered to walk any further!

At the other end you have through platforms like those at London Bridge where there are 2 ways up to the platform, well placed to enable people to spread out along the full length

 

[HSTEd]

Perhaps travelators should be provided on platforms?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Perhaps travelators should be provided on platforms?

Still wouldn't stop the last minute runners crowding the back. Really the best plan is not to have end-on termini, but obviously we are rather stuck with some of them.

Euston actually wasn't badly designed in those terms when it was built - the suburban (8-11) ramp comes down roughly in the middle of a 4-car in 8 or 11, which is what most trains would have been back then. 12-car working is a West Coast Route Modernisation (mid 2000s) thing.

 

[JonathanH]

Euston actually wasn't badly designed in those terms when it was built - the suburban (8-11) ramp comes down roughly in the middle of a 4-car in 8 or 11, which is what most trains would have been back then. 12-car working is a West Coast Route Modernisation (mid 2000s) thing.

It would be interesting to know whether that is by luck or judgement - the logical way to get more capacity and deal with the slope is to bring it down in the middle of longer platforms so it does seem a necessity to have built Euston the way it was.

12-car working should have come sooner but 321438-321448 were pinched for Great Eastern from the original order. There were 50 class 310 units so I imagine 8-car operation wasn't unknown at the time Euston was rebuilt and also locomotive hauled trains to Northampton.

Not much really can be done with Marylebone - I'm not convinced a Northern concourse would see much use even if it was deemed good for passenger distribution. Not sure it particularly helps with class 68 withdrawal either although removing class 68s would remove one of the issues of having a Northern concourse on the bridge at the end of the platforms.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

range of a 755 on diesel is somewhat limited, especially with a lot of 90+mph running. So whilst they might be good from the passenger perspective I suspect the frequent trips they'd need to make to a depot for fuel might knock this on the head. Shame, really. Nice trains.

That has more to do with the specified fuel capacity, though, surely?

If an operator needed to use them for more than the generally shorter runs typical of East Anglia, wouldn't they just put greater range in the specification? Space may be limited in the thrash pods, but there's no technical reason why extra fuel tanks could not be installed underneath the adjoining carriages and fed through.

 

[Anonymous10]

That has more to do with the specified fuel capacity, though, surely?

If an operator needed to use them for more than the generally shorter runs typical of East Anglia, wouldn't they just put greater range in the specification? Space may be limited in the thrash pods, but there's no technical reason why extra fuel tanks could not be installed underneath the adjoining carriages and fed through.

tfw have extended range for example