Chiltern Chairman Challenge - Evergreen 4!

[Chafford1]

Following last month's announcement on Evergreen 3, Chiltern Chairman
Adrian Shooter is asking Modern Railways readers what Evergreen 4
should provide. Roger Ford likes the idea of a 4 track 125mph
electrified railway but reckons that this will have to wait for
Evergreen 5 (and a potential franchise extension to 2026, according to
the article!) !

Comments to Roger Ford at: Evergreen4@alycidon.com

 

[Mojo]

Well the Tesco Tunnel was built with 4-tracking in mind so at least there was some advance thinking

 

[MCR247]

Was that before or after it collapsed?

 

[EWS 58038]

Electrification and gauging enhancements to accomodate Doubledecker trains running up to 100 mph.

What... Yep I said the nasty word.... and I love to do it again.

Doubledecker, 45% more capacity at minimal expanses. By doing so you can team up with other european railway companies like NS or DB under a massive stock order and bring down the price per unit.

 

[A60K]

Was that before or after it collapsed?

Before! It allows for 4 tracks with OHE, not sure if it allows UIC gauge as well though?

 

[The Planner]

Evergreen 4 = HS2....

 

[TheExmoorBeast]

Why not put the line back between what's the current Chiltern mainline (Ashendon Jn?) & the line which passes through Westcott to Quainton Road put that back in it could then provide a link into the Oxford - Bletchley line and into Bletchley & WCML.

Looking at the latest aerial maps the route is virtually unimpeded apart from a barn & a couple of missing bridges or crossings.

 

[Mojo]

Sorry, I don't think you'll ever be able to sell doubledeck trains to me!

 

[Daz28]

Is there a spare tunnel that could increase capacity into Marylebone? I read somewhere that there is a disused tunnel under Lords that is currently used for storage.

 

[tbtc]

Do we really need three fast mainlines from London to Birmingham (if/when all Chiltern's plans and HS2 happen)?

How's about sticking to running a good service in the Chilterns rather than planning world domination?

 

[The Planner]

Why not put the line back between what's the current Chiltern mainline (Ashendon Jn?) & the line which passes through Westcott to Quainton Road put that back in it could then provide a link into the Oxford - Bletchley line and into Bletchley & WCML.

Looking at the latest aerial maps the route is virtually unimpeded apart from a barn & a couple of missing bridges or crossings.

The original up line went over the old GCR line on a flyover, it does it on the flat now where the deviation is. You would either need to put the flyover back in or put the GCR over the up line on a flyover, the latter being the harder to do. It wouldnt be a hugely fast line as the curve at Claydon is fairly sharp.

 

[Aictos]

Not knowing the GCR route too well, I would be happy with 4 tracks where possible along the London to Birmingham section with OHlE plus reconnect the Chiltern route to the Great Western route at I think Bourne End?

 

[The Planner]

Fair bit of the old Wycombe to Bourne End route is built on now.

If they are intent on doing something major again, get Banbury Leamington up to 125mph to get the XCs through quicker and get Bicester Bletchley sorted regardless of E-W proposals.

 

[Chafford1]

Comments to Roger Ford at: Evergreen4@alycidon.com

 

[TheExmoorBeast]

The original up line went over the old GCR line on a flyover, it does it on the flat now where the deviation is. You would either need to put the flyover back in or put the GCR over the up line on a flyover, the latter being the harder to do. It wouldnt be a hugely fast line as the curve at Claydon is fairly sharp.

It's not all about speed, it's a combination of both speed & convenience.
If you look at XC services they're hardly what you call fast are they, come to think of it most services nowadays are nearly if not in some cases slower than in the days of steam! Especially on FGW to Brizzol, Cardiff, Swansea & to Taunton, Exeter & Plymo!

It's all very well creating HS lines, but they're absolutely useless unless you put in the feeder links/services or services that will use both parts like the javelins.

I'm all up for CT developing their services.

Pity that FGW doesn't follow in their footsteps. Perhaps they should consider doing services from Bristol & West to Gatwick/Brighton via Reading or a circular service from Exeter to Exeter via Yeovil.

 

[mallard]

Reinstate the GCML to Rugby and Leicester (where it can be connected to the MML)!

 

[route:oxford]

No-one has mentioned the reinstatement of the Brill tramway yet...

For Evergreen 4, Chiltern needs to work in partnership with Network Rail & every passenger/freight operator that uses the tracks in and around Birmingham to improve capacity, routing opportunities and speeds.

Someone earlier in the thread mentioned the Bourne-End to Wycombe Route. It's always puzzled me why every east-west connection was severed (Maidenhead-Wycombe, Oxford-PrincesRisborough, Oxford-Bletchley & perhaps more between Oxford & Birmingham), keeping at least one open would have offered an element of flexibility.

 

[The Planner]

Re-instate the 4 track between Tyseley and Dorridge, then no one can moan about the stoppers getting in their way...

 

[Voyager 2093]

Is there a spare tunnel that could increase capacity into Marylebone? I read somewhere that there is a disused tunnel under Lords that is currently used for storage.

Its not so much a spare tunnel, its a siding in the tunnel of the left hand side if you are coming into Marylebone. 165s are mainly stabled there, and you may catch the odd 168.

 

[Mojo]

Re-instate the 4 track between Tyseley and Dorridge, then no one can moan about the stoppers getting in their way...

Is it worth it given there are only 3tph stopping services? Moving the ticket office at Widney Manor and all those carparks which provide valuable custom for the railways might be a bit of a pain.

Having said that, I always thought that corridor might be a good way to get HS2 into Birmingham.

 

[The Planner]

You get all the boxes coming up there from Southampton to Landor St/Leeds etc, they cause enough aggrivation aswell. Stopping and fast services just dont mix, which is why the Cov corridor has its odd skip stop services.

 

[Mojo]

Tell me about it, the timetables for that line are a right pain, with the only exception being New Street - Marston Green & Tile Hill which is every 20 Min exactly, and even that is only leaving New Street and not the other way.

Still is the frequency of the fast & local trains on that line really worth it; would the money be better spent elsewhere?

 

[route:oxford]

You get all the boxes coming up there from Southampton to Landor St/Leeds etc, they cause enough aggrivation aswell. Stopping and fast services just dont mix, which is why the Cov corridor has its odd skip stop services.

Would reopening the Kenilworth-Balsall Common route work? It's only 3 miles and appears to be fairly intact.

 

[The Planner]

Not really, as the freight tends to either go up via Solihull to Landor St or through Cov itself to Nuneaton on to the West Coast. Passenger trains would never use it as everything would want to stop at Cov.

 

[Daz28]

I found a reference to the disused tunnel - looks like it has been sold for development.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/cricket/article3716497.ece

 

[150219]

Is there a spare tunnel that could increase capacity into Marylebone? I read somewhere that there is a disused tunnel under Lords that is currently used for storage.

Lords Tunnel was originally a three portal tunnel. Only one of which is still used today, the one containing the two 'main' lines and the Up Siding.

The two remaining disused portals were used for the Up & Down Slow 'headshunts' and No.1 & No.2 Necks from the Goods Yard respectively.

The disused portals, I understand, are (or have been) the subject of purchase according to local newspaper reports.

St. Johns Wood Tunnel is only a single portal tunnel. The two tunnels have been connnected by a covered way since the 1970s, thus providing the effect of one continuous stretch of tunnel.

I'm imagining that expenditure to construct a 4 track railway through from Marylebone to West Hampstead/Finchley Road would be exorbitant.

I'm all for the 4 track railway over the Solihull corridor as suggested by The Planner.

 

[Chafford1]

Send your suggestions for Evergreen 4 to Roger Ford at:

Evergreen4@alycidon.com

 

[matt]

Send your suggestions for Evergreen 4 to Roger Ford at:

Evergreen4@alycidon.com

You don't need to keep repeating that.

 

[EWS 58038]

You don't need to keep repeating that.

Don't you get it... he just wants to increase his post count.

 

[Chafford1]

It appears that Captain Deltic's Chiltern Chairman Challenge may be
connected to further upgrade proposals from Chiltern:

This from TransportXtra 25 February:

'Delivering the Evergreen III project will see Chiltern’s franchise
extended from its current guarantee of 12.5 years to run for its full
20-year term, but Shooter said that he was continuing to work up
further investment projects for the network which he expected to
reveal shortly.'