Chiltern 172s

[wls1]

Is there any specific diagrams of 172s out of MYB in the evening peak or do they drop on anything?

Thanks

 

[E_Reeves]

I believe they work any service, but I may be mistaken

 

[D6975]

They are/were marked as MH in the Chiltern timetable I think. (when they are part of a Brum service)

 

[150219]

Is there any specific diagrams of 172s out of MYB in the evening peak or do they drop on anything?

Thanks

They work specific diagrams, which includes the 'MH' notation in the timetable.

'MH' denotes Mainline Hybrid, as a 168/172 combination.

Whilst the 172s can technically work anything except for anything that requires Tripcocks on the leading vehicle, i.e. services via Amersham, they generally operate fixed diagrams (as do the rest of the fleet).

 

[Triumph]

The have set diagrams.
AS661-664 - 4 diagrams for 4 units all 4 work M-F.
ex MYB (M-F) 0609,0648,0841,0940,0947,1135,1146,1343,1443,1727,1828,1847,1936,
2143
On Sat 1 is at Willesden & one is spare at Wembley, the other 2 work up from Banbury in the morning and go to Wembley until late afternoon when one works 2 Oxford trips with a 2 car 168 - 1630 & 1930 ex MYB.
On Sunday's the only working is 2 units do the 2140 MYB-BAN.

 

[wls1]

The have set diagrams.
AS661-664 - 4 diagrams for 4 units all 4 work M-F.
ex MYB (M-F) 0609,0648,0841,0940,0947,1135,1146,1343,1443,1727,1828,1847,1936,
2143
On Sat 1 is at Willesden & one is spare at Wembley, the other 2 work up from Banbury in the morning and go to Wembley until late afternoon when one works 2 Oxford trips with a 2 car 168 - 1630 & 1930 ex MYB.
On Sunday's the only working is 2 units do the 2140 MYB-BAN.

Thanks

 

[Techniquest]

The have set diagrams.
AS661-664 - 4 diagrams for 4 units all 4 work M-F.
ex MYB (M-F) 0609,0648,0841,0940,0947,1135,1146,1343,1443,1727,1828,1847,1936,
2143
On Sat 1 is at Willesden & one is spare at Wembley, the other 2 work up from Banbury in the morning and go to Wembley until late afternoon when one works 2 Oxford trips with a 2 car 168 - 1630 & 1930 ex MYB.
On Sunday's the only working is 2 units do the 2140 MYB-BAN.

That is exceptionally helpful! I intend to use this gen to my advantage very soon

 

[palmersears]

That is exceptionally helpful! I intend to use this gen to my advantage very soon

Likewise, will save me ample time when I'm down there in two weeks

 

[GW43125]

They work specific diagrams, which includes the 'MH' notation in the timetable.

'MH' denotes Mainline Hybrid, as a 168/172 combination.

Whilst the 172s can technically work anything except for anything that requires Tripcocks on the leading vehicle, i.e. services via Amersham, they generally operate fixed diagrams (as do the rest of the fleet).

If they only require tripcocks on the leading vehicle, could a service potentially run as 165+172+165, or just 165+172 if it's going to be coming back from Aylesbury via PRR?

 

[PeterC]

If they only require tripcocks on the leading vehicle, could a service potentially run as 165+172+165, or just 165+172 if it's going to be coming back from Aylesbury via PRR?

I was wondering that. With a 165 at each end I suspect that it would be too long for some stations (Ricky certainly).

 

[GW43125]

I was wondering that. With a 165 at each end I suspect that it would be too long for some stations (Ricky certainly).

Not necessarily, some rather crude calculations of mine put the length of 165+172+165 at around 139m, whereas an S8 is 138m, so not much difference.

 

[RPM]

Not necessarily, some rather crude calculations of mine put the length of 165+172+165 at around 139m, whereas an S8 is 138m, so not much difference.

A 165/172/165 formation could run over the Met, in fact I believe it has happened once. The 172 has to be completely boxed in so a 165/172 formation is not permitted.

Ricky is restricted to 5 cars, but some peak services don't stop there so a 165/172/165 could operate if necessary. Alternatively, if the train is booked to stop at Ricky the rear unit could be locked out.

However, 172s have no diagrammed work over the Met as things stand.

 

[t_star2001uk]

A 165/172/165 formation could run over the Met, in fact I believe it has happened once.

You are quite correct. I have taken a 168/172/165 formation over the Met when there was a problem at Beaconsfield...

 

[wls1]

Are there any 168s on the met or on gerrards or wycombe stopping services?

 

[RPM]

Are there any 168s on the met or on gerrards or wycombe stopping services?

Yes there are a few booked 168s on all those services, but I don't have a list.of them unfortunately.

 

[mervyn72]

Likewise, will save me ample time when I'm down there in two weeks

So looking at the departures kindly posted, two the four diagrams cannot be done with a travelcard which is a shame.

 

[150219]

Yes there are a few booked 168s on all those services, but I don't have a list.of them unfortunately.

Allow me to oblige (SX, unless otherwise specified):

Key - Number = 165 set / Number + 'C' = 168 set.

2B14 0827 MYB-AYS (2+3C)
2G16 0850 MYB-GER (2C)
2B18 0927 MYB-AYS (4C)
2A29 1213 MYB-AYS (2+2C, TuO, 2C runs as required)
2A33 1313 MYB-AYS (3C)
2G36 1346 MYB-GER (2C)
2G52 1756 MYB-GER (2C)
2B70 2227 MYB-AYS (3C)
2A73 2300 MYB-AYS (2C)
2A69 2313 MYB-AYS (4C)
2B74 2327 MYB-AYS (2+3C)

2C04 0607 AYS-MYB (3C)
1C06 0619 AVP-MYB (3C)
2H24 0942 GER-MYB (2C)
2C27 0948 AYS-MYB (3C)
2H48 1429 AYS-MYB (4C)
2C48 1448 AYS-MYB (2+2C)
2H47 1449 GER-MYB (2C)
2H68 1855 GER-MYB (2C)

 

[JoshW1992]

Although permitted over the Met boxed in during disruption, as mentioned, 172s cannot be planned under LTP/STP circumstances to work over the Met under any conditions.

 

[GW43125]

Are 168s tripcock fitted too or just 165s?

 

[CyrusWuff]

Are 168s tripcock fitted too or just 165s?

The 168s (with the possible exception of the /3s, which are the ex-TPE 170s, though I stand for correction on that) are tripcock fitted.

The 172s can't have tripcocks fitted due to the design of the bogies, and the 68s and DVTs aren't fitted either.

It remains to be seen what the "working over" arrangements will be once the Met Line resignalling reaches the shared section between Harrow-on-the-Hill and Amersham.

 

[150219]

The 168s (with the possible exception of the /3s, which are the ex-TPE 170s, though I stand for correction on that) are tripcock fitted.

The 172s can't have tripcocks fitted due to the design of the bogies, and the 68s and DVTs aren't fitted either.

It remains to be seen what the "working over" arrangements will be once the Met Line resignalling reaches the shared section between Harrow-on-the-Hill and Amersham.

168/3 (former 170/3s) are tripcock fitted.

 

[CyrusWuff]

168/3 (former 170/3s) are tripcock fitted.

I stand corrected. Couldn't remember exactly what they had done to them as part of the Chilternisation.

 

[RPM]

I stand corrected. Couldn't remember exactly what they had done to them as part of the Chilternisation.

However, they're still not allowed over the Met if they are the leading unit in a formation. This is because they don't have ATP, and although the Met Line isn't fitted with ATP, it provides an anti-rollback function that is required by LUL. The 168/3s are currently being fitted with a bespoke anti-rollback device so they can be used over LUL inftastructure.

 

[Triumph]

168/3 (former 170/3s) are tripcock fitted.

The only booked working for 168/3's (the 2 car ones) over the Met are (SX):
2B14 0827 MYB-AYS the rear unit of a 3 car 168 and
2C48 1448 AYS-MYB the rear unit of a car 165
and on Fridays only
5C66 17+33 AYS-MYB on the rear of a 2 car 165.

 

[mervyn72]

The only booked working for 168/3's (the 2 car ones) over the Met are (SX):
2B14 0827 MYB-AYS the rear unit of a 3 car 168 and
2C48 1448 AYS-MYB the rear unit of a car 165
and on Fridays only
5C66 17+33 AYS-MYB on the rear of a 2 car 165.

Not just in this thread, but others also, posts are put out with such confidence by using the terms 'booked' and knowing what unit combinations are and knowing the variations of days (Fridays only, not Mondays etc), it leads me to believe that the fleet diagrams are available for this rolling stock. Now I am aware that they are not for public viewing but this does not stop other forums making this info available, especially for the emu sector. I for one, and I sure others might agree that it would be great to be able to see the diagrams for Chiltern's 165, 168 & 172 fleet, and why not other TOC's too.

I also get that if a service is booked to be 4 cars but turns up with 3 the TOC is providing a stick of which to beat them with, but they publish short formations on their websites anyway.

So my point is that if many emu/hst/lhcs diagrams and cwn's are available why are some others hidden away so secretively?

 

[150219]

I also get that if a service is booked to be 4 cars but turns up with 3 the TOC is providing a stick of which to beat them with, but they publish short formations on their websites anyway.

So my point is that if many emu/hst/lhcs diagrams and cwn's are available why are some others hidden away so secretively?

Hi, I'm not so sure that there's any special reason why they are not available on line, although using the words 'hidden' and 'secret' is perhaps a touch OTT. There's no reason why you couldn't approach TOCs with a FOI request and see what comes back.

 

[mervyn72]

Hi, I'm not so sure that there's any special reason why they are not available on line, although using the words 'hidden' and 'secret' is perhaps a touch OTT. There's no reason why you couldn't approach TOCs with a FOI request and see what comes back.

TOC's are private companies, therefore not part of the FOI structure. Network Rail are but they rarely produce such info as it is seen as commercially sensitive!

 

[JonathanH]

The have set diagrams.
AS661-664 - 4 diagrams for 4 units all 4 work M-F.
ex MYB (M-F) 0609,0648,0841,0940,0947,1135,1146,1343,1443,1727,1828,1847,1936,
2143
On Sat 1 is at Willesden & one is spare at Wembley, the other 2 work up from Banbury in the morning and go to Wembley until late afternoon when one works 2 Oxford trips with a 2 car 168 - 1630 & 1930 ex MYB.
On Sunday's the only working is 2 units do the 2140 MYB-BAN.

Does that therefore translate as (perhaps only until the timetable change coming up soon) (linking workings above to RTT)?

5H01 05+43 Wembley Lmd to London Marylebone 0554
1T05 0609 London Marylebone to Oxford 0729
1Y19 0801 Oxford to London Marylebone 0927
2G20 0947 London Marylebone to Gerrards Cross 1018
5G29 10+17 Gerrards Cross to Gerrards Cross 1048
2H29 1049 Gerrards Cross to London Marylebone 1132
2G28 1146 London Marylebone to Gerrards Cross 1219
5G40 12+19 Gerrards Cross to Gerrards Cross 1248
2H40 1249 Gerrards Cross to London Marylebone 1332
1U35 1343 London Marylebone to Banbury 1504
1H55 1547 Banbury to London Marylebone 1709
2R50 1727 London Marylebone to West Ruislip 1759
2H66 1831 West Ruislip to London Marylebone 1857
2G59 1936 London Marylebone to Gerrards Cross 2018
5G77 20+17 Gerrards Cross to Gerrards Cross 2055
2H77 2056 Gerrards Cross to London Marylebone 2132
1A67 2143 London Marylebone to Aylesbury 2241
2H86 2316 Aylesbury to London Marylebone 0015

5H02 06+27 Wembley Lmd to London Marylebone 0638
1T08 0648 London Marylebone to Oxford 0800
1Y20 0821 Oxford to London Marylebone 0930
1G19 0940 London Marylebone to Birmingham Snow Hill 1139
1H44 1212 Birmingham Snow Hill to London Marylebone 1408
5E38 14+21 London Marylebone to Wembley Lmd 1431
5F64 17+48 Wembley Lmd to London Marylebone 1821
1G55 1847 London Marylebone to Birmingham Snow Hill 2046 (with 3-168)
2U90 2212 Birmingham Snow Hill to Banbury 2323

5U13 06+58 Banbury Depot to Banbury 0702
5P13 07+09 Banbury to Princes Risborough 0743
1H13 0751 Princes Risborough to London Marylebone 0830
1T15 0841 London Marylebone to Oxford 0946
1Y29 1010 Oxford to London Marylebone 1118
1T27 1135 London Marylebone to Oxford 1238
1Y44 1311 Oxford to London Marylebone 1418
5E39 14+31 London Marylebone to Wembley Lmd 1441
5F64 17+48 Wembley Lmd to London Marylebone 1821
1G55 1847 London Marylebone to Birmingham Snow Hill 2046 (with 3-168)
2U90 2212 Birmingham Snow Hill to Banbury 2323

5U13 06+58 Banbury Depot to Banbury 0702
5P13 07+09 Banbury to Princes Risborough 0743
1H13 0751 Princes Risborough to London Marylebone 0830
1U39 1443 London Marylebone to Banbury 1604
1H63 1645 Banbury to London Marylebone 1810
2R54 1828 London Marylebone to West Ruislip 1859
5H72 19+31 West Ruislip to London Marylebone 1953
5E63 20+26 London Marylebone to Wembley Lmd 2038

 

[CarltonA]

2G20 0947 London Marylebone to Gerrards Cross 1018
5G29 10+17 Gerrards Cross to Gerrards Cross 1048
2H29 1049 Gerrards Cross to London Marylebone 1132

Incidentally, do drivers take their official break on board a train if they are faced with a lengthy dwell in a siding? Or must breaks be taken away from the workface as with other industries? Obviously a PNB can be taken at this time.

 

[RPM]

Incidentally, do drivers take their official break on board a train if they are faced with a lengthy dwell in a siding? Or must breaks be taken away from the workface as with other industries? Obviously a PNB can be taken at this time.

You can take a Continuous Driving Break (CDB) on a train but not a PNB.