Child ticket not available from machine without purchasing adult ticket

[Thebaz]

Brief story...

I ended up in a situation a couple of days ago where I could have received a penalty fare because a machine wouldn't sell me the tickets I required. I was going from Purley to Horley with my partner and our two children but we only needed to buy tickets for the children - I had my monthly travelcard on Oyster and my other half had her contactless bank card. There were just a few minutes until the train was due and there was a queue at the window so I went straight to the ticket machine outside to get the child tickets. Upon reaching the final screen for payment I tried to remove the adult ticket from the purchase and add two child tickets but the machine would not allow me to remove the adult ticket. Apparently I had to buy an adult ticket to get the child tickets. Obviously I wasn't going to pay a fare I didn't require so we panicked and ran to the window but there were still two people queuing. The fellow on the gate saw the situation and allowed the family through to the platform (train was by now pulling in) while I reached the window to get the tickets. After my purchase the ticket seller shouted to the chap on the gate to open it up so I could run through and in my haste I neglected to tap the oyster reader as I ran past at full tilt. As I sat on the train out-of-puff I thought well this is going to be an interesting one to try and explain if an RPI approaches us! But we reached Horley without incident and the woman on the gate let me through with a brief explanation.

So the long and short of it is the question: is it right that a machine will not sell a child ticket without an adult one? Or is that a fault with this particular machine?

 

[CyrusWuff]

So the long and short of it is the question: is it right that a machine will not sell a child ticket without an adult one? Or is that a fault with this particular machine?

In most cases, it's a deliberate decision by the machine operator, generally on Revenue Protection grounds. It's amazing how many twentysomething year old Children there are!

That said, there are examples (including Purley to Horley) where you have to buy a Child ticket separately to get the best fare, due to the relevant Operator offering "Child Flat Fare" tickets.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In most cases, it's a deliberate decision by the machine operator, generally on Revenue Protection grounds. It's amazing how many twentysomething year old Children there are!

That said, there are examples (including Purley to Horley) where you have to buy a Child ticket separately to get the best fare, due to the relevant Operator offering "Child Flat Fare" tickets.

And, more importantly, children travelling alone.

Presumably they would not be PFed if the booking office was closed and the TOC had this ridiculous policy?

 

[Class800]

And, more importantly, children travelling alone.

Presumably they would not be PFed if the booking office was closed and the TOC had this ridiculous policy?

With some TOCs I wouldn't be sure! They might argue there was an opportunity to buy A ticket - the railway can be rather unfriendly as we know

 

[MrJeeves]

I think that the GTR machines won't let you remove an adult ticket until you have first added a child ticket (i.e., the TVM won't let you get into a state where you're looking at a page where both no adults nor children are selected). Maybe that have happened here? I might check on my way home.

 

[Haywain]

I think that the GTR machines won't let you remove an adult ticket until you have first added a child ticket (i.e., the TVM won't let you get into a state where you're looking at a page where both no adults nor children are selected). Maybe that have happened here? I might check on my way home.

That is normal on pretty much all ticket issuing systems, as it prevents having zero passengers.

 

[Thebaz]

I think that the GTR machines won't let you remove an adult ticket until you have first added a child ticket (i.e., the TVM won't let you get into a state where you're looking at a page where both no adults nor children are selected). Maybe that have happened here? I might check on my way home.

I added the child tickets but still couldn't remove the adult ticket.

 

[Haywain]

I added the child tickets but still couldn't remove the adult ticket.

It could be that the tickets offered were child flat fare tickets which are not available to unaccompanied children.

 

[Bensonby]

This has been an issue for me on a couple of occasions: once on Southeastern High Speed at Ebbsfleet and one on a Greater Anglia station. Both times I already had a ticket and both times I couldn’t buy a single child fare. It does appear to be a deliberate policy.

On the first occasion I went to the ticket office, on the second I had to buy one online as an E ticket from my phone. It was a bit of a faff to be honest.

 

[Thebaz]

It could be that the tickets offered were child flat fare tickets which are not available to unaccompanied children.

This maybe so, but either way it is an unnecessary complication of the ticket-buying process. I am not aware of what a flat-rate fare is and I'm someone who is very familiar with the railways, so what chance to mere mortals!?