Child received NIP

[Dizzy111]

Afternoon all,

I recently bought my now adult child a 16/25 railcard.

Today she received an NIP through the post about failure to show a valid rail ticket for a journey made in November when she was under 18.

Also, it makes reference to other journeys where the correct rail fair may have been avoided.

I assume as soon as her financial details were linked up to her rail card, any journeys have been back audited resulting in this action.

Obviously, I’m livid that she has potentially evaded full payment of the fares and will be suitably reprimanded if that has been the case.

That matter aside we are now being threatened with a prosecution which is obviously not ideal for her. Looking at other threads, it appears that writing a letter pleading childish ignorance and offering to make financial reparations for whatever is needed would be the way forward?

Does anybody else have experience of this and how best we approach contact with them?

Thanks

A livid mother!

 

[Gloster]

Please post the letter that you received in this thread. Please obscure the name, address and any other identifying details, such as reference numbers.

 

[Dizzy111]

Attached

 

[WesternLancer]

I assume as soon as her financial details were linked up to her rail card, any journeys have been back audited resulting in this action.

Hi and welcome - the letter you have updated (from Chiltern Railways?) does not suggest this is some digital audit that has resulted in this - to me it looks like she was probably stopped without a valid ticket and spoken to about it by a member of staff, who took her details.

Could this be the case?

It might be worth a suitably supportive 'mother - daughter' conversation about what actually happened when she was stopped back in November because the best way to minimise the problems that can ensure from this is for you to help her untangle it - and you'll get the advice form here on how best to do that - but you'll need to get a fully honest set of info from her to help you best do this, even if you keep those facts between you and her.

You need to be aware that the ultimate worst case scenario outcome from this is prosecution in magistrates court for travel without a valid ticket - clearly you are a way off that yet but your objective has to be to avoid that happening - which should be possible to achieve with help from here all being well.

However - The 'digital' investigation they will now be able to do is to look at her online ticket buying records to see if they think there are other tickets she bought for her own travel at child rates or railcard discounted rates after she passed her 16th birthday, but wasn't entailed to use (eg didn't actually have the railcard, should have paid an adult fare).

Looking at other threads, it appears that writing a letter pleading childish ignorance and offering to make financial reparations for whatever is needed would be the way forward?

Yes, You've got the right idea - it's probably best to post her draft wording up here for people to check before sending, as then it can be got as good as it can be.

Ask any questions you need to ask.

 

[Dizzy111]

Hi and welcome - the letter you have updated (from Chiltern Railways?) does not suggest this is some digital audit that has resulted in this - to me it looks like she was probably stopped without a valid ticket and spoken to about it by a member of staff, who took her details.

Could this be the case?

It might be worth a suitably supportive 'mother - daughter' conversation about what actually happened when she was stopped back in November because the best way to minimise the problems that can ensure from this is for you to help her untangle it - and you'll get the advice form here on how best to do that - but you'll need to get a fully honest set of info from her to help you best do this, even if you keep those facts between you and her.

You need to be aware that the ultimate worst case scenario outcome from this is prosecution in magistrates court for travel without a valid ticket - clearly you are a way off that yet but your objective has to be to avoid that happening - which should be possible to achieve with help from here all being well.

However - The 'digital' investigation they will now be able to do is to look at her online ticket buying records to see if they think there are other tickets she bought for her own travel at child rates or railcard discounted rates after she passed her 16th birthday, but wasn't entailed to use (eg didn't actually have the railcard, should have paid an adult fare).



Yes, You've got the right idea - it's probably best to post her draft wording up here for people to check before sending, as then it can be got as good as it can be.

Ask any questions you need to ask.

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

My assumption was made because they had not yet managed to ascertain our home address until I purchased the 16/25 card, which needed these details. It’s quite possible that I inadvertently contributed to this coming to light but it’s certainly not my mistake to make up for!

I suspect she may have bought a ticket but has paid a child fare and you are quite right; a ‘motherly conversation’ will be had!

Thank you for the advice, I will have an ‘in-depth’ conversation with her shortly and I will post here after.

Just a quick question, would it be better that the email comes from her directly? Or from me as the mortified parent?

And if there have been other occasions, do i / we mention these too or just the one time that they mention in their letter?

Thanks

 

[SuspectUsual]

And if there have been other occasions, do i / we mention these too or just the one time that they mention in their letter?

There’s no need to self-incriminate so you can limit yourself to just discussing what they mention, but obviously you can’t also lie (ie you can’t say I’ve never done this before)

Just a quick question, would it be better that the email comes from her directly? Or from me as the mortified parent?

If she is an adult, it needs to come from her, but obviously you (and us if you like) could help drafting it

 

[Dizzy111]

There’s no need to self-incriminate so you can limit yourself to just discussing what they mention, but obviously you can’t also lie (ie you can’t say I’ve never done this before)



If she is an adult, it needs to come from her, but obviously you (and us if you like) could help drafting it

Thank you so much.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

My assumption was made because they had not yet managed to ascertain our home address until I purchased the 16/25 card, which needed these details. It’s quite possible that I inadvertently contributed to this coming to light but it’s certainly not my mistake to make up for!

I would expect that her contact details / address are probably linked to the ticket buying website she used to buy the ticket maybe (an e-mail address would be anyway), but yes possibly via the railcard also - but if she was stopped and questioned they would have taken her postal / home address, and usually asked for supporting ID to verify it if she had any on her (as you know people are not obliged to have or carry ID in the UK).

She should reply herself (is she now over 18?) but if for some reason she is unable to do so then you can reply on her behalf but you'd need a signed 'letter of authority' from her permitting you to act on her behalf - templates of such things are available on line - that would be the case if over 18 anyway.

 

[SuspectUsual]

is she now over 18?

OP says “now adult” in post #1

 

[WesternLancer]

OP says “now adult” in post #1

ah yes, thanks for pointing that out.

FWIW an adult can of course give authority for another person / adult to act on their behalf in a matter like this - ie in terms of dialogue with railway company at least - should they wish to do so or need to do so.

 

[Haywain]

My assumption was made because they had not yet managed to ascertain our home address until I purchased the 16/25 card, which needed these details.

The letter states that a person was stopped "giving your [daughter's] name and address", so I think that the railcard purchase is nothing more than coincidence. You will find this easier to deal with if your daughter is honest about what happened, and what ticket was held.

And if there have been other occasions, do i / we mention these too or just the one time that they mention in their letter?

They have mentioned other occasions in the letter, so you have to address that.

it appears that writing a letter pleading childish ignorance and offering to make financial reparations for whatever is needed would be the way forward?

In general terms, yes, but I wouldn't go to heavily on the ignorance part. Train companies will almost always settle with those who apologise and ask to pay a settlement, and there is no reason that your daughter should be an exception.

 

[Dizzy111]

There’s no need to self-incriminate so you can limit yourself to just discussing what they mention, but obviously you can’t also lie (ie you can’t say I’ve never done this before)



If she is an adult, it needs to come from her, but obviously you (and us if you like) could help drafting it

Hello again.

A ‘word’ has been had. Here is the letter she has drafted. Please advise if the part about instalments is appropriate.

Dear Chilterns Railways,

I'm writing to sincerely apologize for not paying the correct rail fare on ????

At the time, I was under 18, and I honestly didn’t think that not paying the correct fare could be considered fraud. I now fully understand that it was a mistake, and I deeply regret it.

I am truly sorry for what happened. This experience has taught me a valuable lesson about the importance of following the rules and paying for the services I use.

I would like to resolve this issue without the need for court action. While I am happy to pay the outstanding fare and any administrative costs, I should mention that I am a student and don't earn a great deal at the moment. If possible, I would like to arrange to pay in installments. Please let me know if this is an option, and I will make the payments as promptly as I can.

Once again, I apologise for any inconvenience this may have caused and hope we can come to a solution that works for both parties.

Thank you for your understanding.

 

[Haywain]

I now fully understand that it was a mistake,

I would perhaps change that to say "I now understand the seriousness of my actions", which gets round any question of how many times a 'mistake' can be made.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Mar 2025 ==

While I am happy to pay the outstanding fare and any administrative costs, I should mention that I am a student and don't earn a great deal at the moment. If possible, I would like to arrange to pay in installments. Please let me know if this is an option, and I will make the payments as promptly as I can.

I'm not sure it's a good idea to say this without knowing how much they are looking for. Others may offer a view on this.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Others will doubtless be along soon, but from my point of view I think it needs a bit of work

Sorry if this appears a bit blunt, but I’ve tried to see it from the perspective of the train company

At the time, I was under 18, and I honestly didn’t think that not paying the correct fare could be considered fraud. I now fully understand that it was a mistake, and I deeply regret it.

What did you think it was? Did you honestly need this to happen to realise not paying your fare was a problem?

I am truly sorry for what happened. This experience has taught me a valuable lesson about the importance of following the rules and paying for the services I use

Again, did you not previously realise it was important to follow rules?

I would like to resolve this issue without the need for court action. While I am happy to pay the outstanding fare and any administrative costs, I should mention that I am a student and don't earn a great deal at the moment. If possible, I would like to arrange to pay in installments. Please let me know if this is an option, and I will make the payments as promptly as I can.

Once again, I apologise for any inconvenience this may have caused and hope we can come to a solution that works for both parties.

You need to understand that this isn’t really a negotiation - the train company hold all the cards, you don’t have any. You need to ask very politely if they would consider an out of court settlement, and hope they offer one.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hello again.

A ‘word’ has been had. Here is the letter she has drafted. Please advise if the part about instalments is appropriate.

Dear Chilterns Railways,

I'm writing to sincerely apologize for not paying the correct rail fare on ????

At the time, I was under 18, and I honestly didn’t think that not paying the correct fare could be considered fraud. I now fully understand that it was a mistake, and I deeply regret it.

I am truly sorry for what happened. This experience has taught me a valuable lesson about the importance of following the rules and paying for the services I use.

I would like to resolve this issue without the need for court action. While I am happy to pay the outstanding fare and any administrative costs, I should mention that I am a student and don't earn a great deal at the moment. If possible, I would like to arrange to pay in installments. Please let me know if this is an option, and I will make the payments as promptly as I can.

Once again, I apologise for any inconvenience this may have caused and hope we can come to a solution that works for both parties.

Thank you for your understanding.

Others have made good points already - things that occur to me that you might want to think about working in

a) - insert their ref number on the letter

b) - Just my hunch - don't mention fraud (apols if I'm wrong as only looked briefly but I don't think Chiltern's letter states they are accusing you of fraud) - try eg

At the time, I was under 18, and I didn’t fully appreciate the severity of this error of judgment on my part. I now fully understand that it was a mistake, and I deeply regret it.

c) add in somewhere - shows you have done something practical to address the error - 'I have now bought a Railcard (enclose copy) to ensure that I can legitimately reduce the cost of my train travel'

d) Installments - you are not in a strong position to ask for this and they don't usually do them (as it increases their costs monitoring that you actually pay them all etc etc - they want to get the cash in and close the case) - don't ask for this unless you really, really have no other legit financial option - including borrowing from friends and family, going to the university hardship fund etc

e) "hope we can come to a solution that works for both parties." - you're not negotiating, you're falling on their mercy / begging - so I would suggest a change of tone eg or some such your daughter is comfortable with - for example 'I would be most grateful if you could look sympathetically on this request to allow me to resolve this matter without prosecution'


Basically you need to convince them
- you understand what you did was wrong - even if unintentionally done
- you won't ever do it again
- you will pay them what you owe in wrong or evaded fares

If they agree to the settlement expect to pay the full cost of the fare at the pricey Anytime Single rate (plus any other fares they discover that were not paid at the correct sum), plus an 'admin' fee maybe £150

 

[Dizzy111]

Others have made good points already - things that occur to me that you might want to think about working in

a) - insert their ref number on the letter

b) - Just my hunch - don't mention fraud (apols if I'm wrong as only looked briefly but I don't think Chiltern's letter states they are accusing you of fraud) - try eg

At the time, I was under 18, and I didn’t fully appreciate the severity of this error of judgment on my part. I now fully understand that it was a mistake, and I deeply regret it.

c) add in somewhere - shows you have done something practical to address the error - 'I have now bought a Railcard (enclose copy) to ensure that I can legitimately reduce the cost of my train travel'

d) Installments - you are not in a strong position to ask for this and they don't usually do them (as it increases their costs monitoring that you actually pay them all etc etc - they want to get the cash in and close the case) - don't ask for this unless you really, really have no other legit financial option - including borrowing from friends and family, going to the university hardship fund etc

e) "hope we can come to a solution that works for both parties." - you're not negotiating, you're falling on their mercy / begging - so I would suggest a change of tone eg or some such your daughter is comfortable with - for example 'I would be most grateful if you could look sympathetically on this request to allow me to resolve this matter without prosecution'


Basically you need to convince them
- you understand what you did was wrong - even if unintentionally done
- you won't ever do it again
- you will pay them what you owe in wrong or evaded fares

If they agree to the settlement expect to pay the full cost of the fare at the pricey Anytime Single rate (plus any other fares they discover that were not paid at the correct sum), plus an 'admin' fee maybe £150

How about this:

Dear Sir / Madam.

I am writing to sincerely apologize for not paying the correct rail fare on [date of incident].

At the time, I was under 18, and I didn’t fully appreciate the severity of this error of judgment on my part. I now fully understand that it was a mistake, and I deeply regret it.

I am extremely keen to resolve this matter without the need for court action and would like to pay the outstanding fare and any administrative costs that have come up due to this situation.

This experience has taught me a valuable lesson about the importance of following the rules and paying for the services I use. I will never make this mistake again.

I have now bought a Railcard to ensure that I can legitimately reduce the cost of my train travel.

Once again, I apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused.

I would be most grateful if you could look sympathetically on this request to allow me to resolve this matter without prosecution

Thank you for your understanding.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I would take out "I am extremely keen to resolve this matter without the need for court action" You don't get a choice; it is up to the train company whether they wish to settle out of court or not. Maybe something along the lines of "Please could you consider settling this without the need for court action?" And add about paying the outstanding fare and admin costs

 

[30907]

I would take out "I am extremely keen to resolve this matter without the need for court action" You don't get a choice; it is up to the train company whether they wish to settle out of court or not. Maybe something along the lines of "Please could you consider settling this without the need for court action?" And add about paying the outstanding fare and admin costs

And I would take out the word "mistake" - it was deliberate cheating.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hello again.

A ‘word’ has been had. Here is the letter she has drafted. Please advise if the part about instalments is appropriate.

Dear Chilterns Railways,

I'm writing to sincerely apologize for not paying the correct rail fare on ????

At the time, I was under 18, and I honestly didn’t think that not paying the correct fare could be considered fraud. I now fully understand that it was a mistake, and I deeply regret it.

I am truly sorry for what happened. This experience has taught me a valuable lesson about the importance of following the rules and paying for the services I use.

I would like to resolve this issue without the need for court action. While I am happy to pay the outstanding fare and any administrative costs, I should mention that I am a student and don't earn a great deal at the moment. If possible, I would like to arrange to pay in installments. Please let me know if this is an option, and I will make the payments as promptly as I can.

Once again, I apologise for any inconvenience this may have caused and hope we can come to a solution that works for both parties.

Thank you for your understanding.

It looks pretty good. Tho I note some minor tweaks others have suggested.

 

[AlterEgo]

When did this happen exactly in November?

If the person was a child, I would encourage at the first stage to try to ask for the matter to be dropped with a warning. They won't prosecute children and it's worth pointing out the person was a child. I think the mother ought to write on the child's behalf.