Chesterfield to Chesterfield via Bradford

[paul@skegby.org.]

I’m planning a day out to try out Grand Centrals new East Riding Service.

My problem is travelling on the services I have chosen shown below, I cannot seem to find a Std Return Ticket on National Rail to cover the Grand Central.

I’ve done a few split ticketing to reduce the fare by using singles, it would be nice to get feedback to see if it can be cheaper.

All times are for Saturday 19th June Std Class

08:03 Chesterfield – Leeds 09:02 £6.00

09:37 Leeds – Bradford Interchange 09:57 £2.85

10:22 Bradford Interchange – Doncaster 12:04
Split ticket
Bradford to Wakefield Kirkgate £3.00
Wakefield Kirkgate to Doncaster £7.20

12:52 Doncaster – Chesterfield 13:38 £7.00

Total Fare Split Ticket £26.05


A Std Return Ticket Chesterfield to Bradford is £17.60 but National Rail is not allowing travel via Doncaster only via Leeds.

Can anyone advise me?

I am willing to try any other route or combination (i.e. Chesterfield via Retford)

 

[John @ home]

I’m planning a day out to try out Grand Centrals new East Riding Service.

West Yorkshire service, I think.

Can anyone advise me?

I think this will suit you.

Chesterfield - Sheffield Off-Peak Day Return (CDR) £4.10
Sheffield - Bradford Yk Stns route Not Doncaster Off-Peak Day Return (CDR) £9.90
On arrival at Bradford Interchange, excess the return leg of this ticket to a Sheffield - Bradford Yk Stns route Any Permitted Anytime Day Return (SDR). The SDR costs £14.50 so the excess for the return leg only costs half the difference, that's £2.30.

Total £4.10 + £9.90 + £2.30 = £16.30

 

[mumrar]

West Yorkshire service, I think.I think this will suit you.

Are you sure that excess is correct, because as well as being over distance, CDR-SDR is a change of ticket type too, so fare halving may not be applicable. You may have to buy the SDR route Not Doncaster, then excess the return to be Any Permitted and pay half the difference. I'm saying all this with no ticket type or price references currently available to me.

 

[clagmonster]

John, as far as I can see, Sheffield-Bradford is not valid via Doncaster. My working is as follows:
Both stations are routeing points.
http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/File/RSPDocuments/routeing_point_identifier.pdf

The routeing permissions for Sheffield group-Bradford group are: SY, SY+WK, SY+WY, WK.
http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/File/RSPDocuments/permitted_route_identifier.pdf

SY allows:
Sheffield-Meadowhall-Barnsley-Wakefield-Leeds-Bradford
Sheffield-Meadowhall-Swinton-Wakefield-Leeds-Bradford

SY+WK allows:
Sheffield-Meadowhall-Swinton-Wakefield-Huddersfield-Brighouse-Halifax-Bradford
Sheffield-Meadowhall-Barnsley-Huddersfield-Halifax-Bradford
Sheffield-Meadowhall-Swinton-Pontefract-Wakefield-Leeds-Bradford

SY+WY allows only repeats from above as far as I can see.

WK allows:
Sheffield-Meadowhall-Swinton-Pontefract-Wakefield-Huddersfield-Brighouse-Halifax-Bradford
Sheffield-Meadowhall-Barnsley-Wakefield-Huddersfield-Brighouse-Halifax-Bradford
http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/File/RSPDocuments/maps.pdf

None of these routes touch Doncaster, and I can't see that Doncaster would be on the shortest route. This begs the question of what the point is of having separate route not Doncaster and any permitted tickets, I suspect that this is because Doncaster was once on a permitted route. It may also be because the Bradford fare is derived from the Leeds fare.

Mumrar, whilst it is obviously now irrelevent in this case, I would agree with John's excess interpretation as there is no any permitted cheap day return for this flow, so if excessing a route not Doncaster cheap day return, the excess is half the difference between the price of the ticket already held and the price of the appropriate return ticket, which I believe to be the day return.

 

[OwlMan]

None of these routes touch Doncaster, and I can't see that Doncaster would be on the shortest route. This begs the question of what the point is of having separate route not Doncaster and any permitted tickets, I suspect that this is because Doncaster was once on a permitted route. It may also be because the Bradford fare is derived from the Leeds fare.

Doncaster os on both maps SY & WK so it is on a valid route.

Peter

 

[John @ home]

This begs the question of what the point is of having separate route not Doncaster and any permitted tickets

I agree that Bradford - Sheffield via Doncaster is not currently a mapped route.

It used to be a mapped route, but was withdrawn by mistake by ATOC on 2 July 2009, together with a number of other Yorkshire routes such as Leeds - Sheffield via Doncaster and York - Sheffield via Huddersfield. I alerted Passenger Focus to this error on the day it happened and they wrote to me later that month.

This change had not come to our attention and we welcome your timely intervention as having alerted us to it. I contacted the Department for Transport about this as soon as your message was received.

The Department has advised that ATOC will amend the flow to which you refer so that it reverts to its former permissions. Apparently no formal applications for change had been made and it is unclear how this change occurred.

To date York - Sheffield via Huddersfield has been restored as a mapped route but we still await the restoration of Bradford - Sheffield and Leeds - Sheffield via Doncaster. No doubt this will now happen soon - ATOC reads this forum.

Meanwhile, a passenger need not worry if using a Bradford or Leeds - Sheffield route Any Permitted ticket via Doncaster. If the tickets were not accepted via Doncaster, then there would be two identical products sold at different prices without the potential purchaser being told that they were identical. This would breach trading standards legislation.

 

[mumrar]

Mumrar, whilst it is obviously now irrelevent in this case, I would agree with John's excess interpretation as there is no any permitted cheap day return for this flow, so if excessing a route not Doncaster cheap day return, the excess is half the difference between the price of the ticket already held and the price of the appropriate return ticket, which I believe to be the day return.

Ah, in that case yes. Didn't fully grasp what was laid out at first reading, but yep, makes sense now.

 

[John @ home]

Doncaster os on both maps SY & WK so it is on a valid route.

Thanks for that, Peter.

The problem is not the one I wrote about above.

A map combination showing permitted Bradford - Sheffield routes is SY+WK.

WK allows Bradford Group - Halifax - Brighouse - Huddersfield Group (Mirfield) - Wakefield Group - Pontefract Group. It then allows Pontefract Group - Doncaster without passing through any other Routeing Point, although the positioning of the Pontefract - Doncaster red line has not yet been adjusted to reflect the opening of the direct route for Grand Central trains on 23 May 2010.

Then SY allows Doncaster - Swinton - Meadowhall - Sheffield.

I am sure that ATOC intend to allow travel by the Grand Central route, but the map should be adjusted to reflect the new service.

Meanwhile, I am confident that tickets will be accepted.

 

[sonic2009]

here's an idea for £11.70

Chesterfield to Brighouse Anytime Return..going out via Leeds, coming back via Pontefract Monkhill & Doncaster, show's valid Route.

journey times

0803 Chesterfield to Leeds arr 0902
0922 Leeds to Bradford Interchange 0942

1022 Bradford Interchange to Doncaster via Pontefract arr 1204
1204 Doncaster to Sheffield arr 1305 ( train stop's at Swinton, so it's fine to split)

1327 Sheffield to Chesterfield.

 

[badger1badger]

here's an idea for £21.85

chesterfield to leeds £6.00
leeds to bradford £2.85
Bradford to Pontefract £3.00
Pontrefact to Swinton (South Yorks ) via Doncaster £4.60
Swinton to Chesterfield £5.40

journey times

0803 Chesterfield to Leeds arr 0902
0922 Leeds to Bradford Interchange 0942

1022 Bradford Interchange to Doncaster via Pontefract arr 1204
1204 Doncaster to Sheffield arr 1305 ( train stop's at Swinton, so it's fine to split)



1327 Sheffield to Chesterfield.

simply put brilliant ! more of these for us not so experts on tickets

thank you

 

[John @ home]

here's an idea for £11.70

Chesterfield to Brighouse Anytime Return..going out via Leeds, coming back via Pontefract Monkhill & Doncaster

The Chesterfield - Brighouse route Any Permitted £11.70 Anytime Return (SOR) isn't valid via Leeds. My calculation is below, and I can't find a journey planner which offers it. If it had been valid, the £10.10 Anytime Day Return (SDR) would have met paul@skegby.org's needs.

For the moment, I'm sticking to my £16.30 suggestion in post #2.

Chesterfield (CHD) is a Routeing Point (RP).
RPs for Brighouse (BGH) are Halifax (HFX) Group and Huddersfield (HUD) Group.

Fares Check
CHD - BGH Anytime Day Single (SDS) = £8.10
CHD - HUD SDS = £8.10 so Huddersfield Group is an appropriate RP.
CHD - HFX SDS = £15.00 so Halifax Group is not an appropriate RP.

Maps
Permitted Routes between Chesterfield and Huddersfield Group are shown on map SY and map WK.

Permitted Routes
Map SY allows two routes:

• Chesterfield - Sheffield - Meadowhall - Barnsley - Huddersfield
• Chesterfield - Sheffield - Meadowhall - Swinton - Wakefield - Barnsley - Huddersfield

Map WK allows three routes:

• Chesterfield - Sheffield - Meadowhall - Barnsley - Wakefield - Huddersfield
• Chesterfield - Sheffield - Meadowhall - Swinton - Wakefield - Huddersfield
• Chesterfield - Sheffield - Meadowhall - Swinton - Pontefract - Wakefield - Huddersfield

Travel via Leeds is not permitted.