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chester to settle line

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robert2000

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1. i can only find singles online and no returns, from Chester where I live.

2. are there any day tickets that could allow me to back via WCML beacause of the timings on the settle line.

3. do i have to go to leeds to change?
 
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robert2000

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thanks.

by the way, i recommend the cheshire day ranger ticket.

i like it because it is valid outside the county, in parts of wales (shotton - bidston and wairral. liverpool, manchester,

but how far down the marches can i go, i think it is as far as wrenbury but i'm not sure.
 
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John @ home

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1. i can only find singles online and no returns, from Chester where I live.
The National Fares Manual NFM 05 CD shows the following Chester - Settle route Any Permitted fares:
Standard Anytime Day Single £34.60
Standard Anytime Return £45.60
In addition, there are Advance singles route VWC and connections from £6 to £19.50 in Standard and from £30 to £50 in First Class.
are there any day tickets that could allow me to back via WCML beacause of the timings on the settle line.
If you want a day trip from Chester to the town of Settle, then the £45.60 ticket above is also available for Chester - Giggleswick, and that allows WCML travel between Crewe and Lancaster.
3. do i have to go to leeds to change?
No. I can't find a Chester - Settle route valid via Leeds.
It doesn't look like you can go via the WCML on a standard return ticket, so if you want to do that it looks like the best option is a North West Rail Rover for £57 adult http://www.northernrail.org/offers/Rail+Rover#locations_tab
The £57 Freedom of North West Rover is an excellent product. It is valid for any 4 of 8 consecutive days (from 0845 Mon-Fri). The validity map is here. Unfortunately, there is no equivalent Day Ranger ticket.
 

323235

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Chester-Settle seems a bit of a awkward ticket in terms of routing guide validity

With Chester and Hellifield as the end to end routing points
the following maps and validity is given

CH+GM+MH
Chester-Crewe-Wilsmlow-Styal/Stockport-Manchester-Bolton-(Blackburn-Hellifield)-Settle
Chester-Hooton-Liverpool-Hunts Cross-Warrington-Manchester-Bolton-(Blackburn-Hellifield)-Settle
Chester-Liverpool-Huyton-Earlestown-Manchester-Bolton-(Blackburn-Hellifield)-Settle


CH+NC+EH

Chester-Liverpool-Huyton-Earlestown-Warrington-Preston-Lancaster-Carnforth-Hellifield-Settle
Chester-Liverpool-Hunts Cross-Warrington-Preston-Lancaster-Carnforth-Hellifield-Settle

CL+MH

Chester-Warrington-Wigan-Bolton-Blackburn-Hellifield-Settle
Chester-Hooton-Runcorn-Warrington-Wigan-Bolton-Blackburn-Hellifield-Settle
Chester-Liverpool-Hunts Cross/Huyton-Warrington-Wigan-Bolton-(Blackburn-Hellifield)-Settle

GM+MH

Chester-Altrincham-Stockport-Manchester-Bolton-Blackburn-Hellifield-Settle

() - Spring/Summer Sunday service only

From this it can be seen that travellers are restricted to
1) Travelling via Blackburn and Hellifield,despite the fact that there are only 2 trains each way on the routes,on Summer Sundays.
2) via Wennington which gets 5 trains each way a day between Morecambe/Lancaster-Leeds

One routing available to travellers includes Hooton-Runcorn via Ellesmere Port, despite the fact there's only 4 trains on part of that section.

From an average travellers point of view it would seem very restrictive
when more appropraite routings with a more frequent service that exist are :-

Chester - Crewe/Warrington - Preston/Wigan-Bolton,Blackburn,Leeds,Settle
Chester-Crewe/Warrington - Preston,Lancaster,Carlisle,Settle
Chester- Manchester, Leeds,Skipton,Settle
 

northwichcat

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The National Fares Manual NFM 05 CD shows the following Chester - Settle route Any Permitted fares:In addition, there are Advance singles route VWC and connections from £6 to £19.50 in Standard and from £30 to £50 in First Class.

Now you've posted that I've found these on virgintrains.co.uk, although it does only show one northbound and one southbound combination of journeys that it's valid for. Like the OP when I looked it on one site it couldn't find any returns available which is why I suggested the North West 4 in 8 days pass, but depending on whether the OP is planning any other rail travel in the same week that could still possibility be the best option.
 
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robert2000

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Chester
im i allowed to change at carnforth?

i only just noticed that station, i have no idea which train goes there either.
 

John @ home

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im i allowed to change at carnforth?

i only just noticed that station, i have no idea which train goes there either.
The platforms on the West Coast Mainline at Carnforth were removed some years ago. The remaining platforms are used by Lancaster - Leeds and Lancaster - Barrow trains. See this map. So, yes, you are allowed to change at Carnforth with a Chester - Settle route Any Permitted ticket. But I don't think it will help you.
 

John @ home

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Chester-Settle seems a bit of a awkward ticket in terms of routing guide validity
You can say that again! I think we'll add it to the list of Routeing Guide errors.
With Chester and Hellifield as the end to end routing points
Agreed, the fares check gives these as the appropriate Routeing Points for the journey.
the following maps and validity is given

routes with trains on summer Sundays only snipped

CH+NC+EH

Chester-Liverpool-Huyton-Earlestown-Warrington-Preston-Lancaster-Carnforth-Hellifield-Settle
Chester-Liverpool-Hunts Cross-Warrington-Preston-Lancaster-Carnforth-Hellifield-Settle
One can use map CH from Chester to Crewe, Hunts Cross or Huyton. Then one can use map NC to Wigan, either from Crewe via Warrington, or from Hunts Cross via Warrington with an optional deviation via Earlestown, or from Huyton via Earlestown with an optional deviation via Warrington. From Wigan, one continues on map NC to Preston, to Lancaster, to Wennington, to Hellifield Group. But for this to be a Permitted Route, we need to make use of all maps CH, NC and EH.
How to use the National Routeing Guide said:
Where a routeing specifies that a combination of Maps be used e.g) ER+PN+BD, the route is via any route on that map from the first routeing point to intercept point(s) for the next map without doubling back, then via any route within that map without doubling back. This is repeated until the final map is reached then via any route within that map until the final routeing point is reached. ... ALL MAPS NEED TO BE CONSULTED IN SEQUENTIAL ORDER.

http://www.atoc.org/rsp/Routeing_Guide/instructions.pdf
The National Routeing Guide in detail said:
If the route code has several maps, route tracing must observe the following rules:
1. Tracing must start at one of the ends of the route code.
2. All maps must be used.
3. Maps must be used in strict sequence, first to last or last to first, according to the end of the route code where reading began.
4. Tracing may move from map to map only at a point where the two maps touch.
5. Once route tracing has left a map it cannot return to it.
6. Journeys may not double back except between stations which are members of a routeing point group for interchange or unless an easement permits it.

(My emphasis)
http://www.atoc.org/rsp/Routeing_Guide/nrg_detail.pdf
It is therefore quite difficult to construct a permitted route Chester - Settle using maps CH+NC+EH. Route EH is Halifax or Hellifield to Blackburn, to Bolton, to Wigan, to Warrington, to Hunts Cross or to Huyton via Earlestown. The only Permitted Routes I can devise are:
Map CH Chester - Crewe or Hunts Cross or Huyton.
Map NC Crewe or Hunts Cross or Huyton - Wigan - Preston - Lancaster - Wennington - Long Preston.
Map EH Long Preston - Hellifield.

This takes advantage of the facts that Hellifield Group comprises Hellifield and Long Preston and that doubling back is permitted by point 6 of The National Routeing Guide in detail quoted above.

So Chester - Settle is permitted via Lancaster if and only if one doubles back between Long Preston and Hellifeld!

By the same calculations, Chester - Hellifeld is permitted via Lancaster using map EH between Long Preston and Hellifeld.

But for 341 days of the year Chester - Long Preston has no mapped Permitted Routes at all because the doubling back concession does not apply where the origin or destination stations are part of a group . The only valid route for a Chester - Long Preston route Any Permitted ticket is taking the route of shortest distance or a distance longer by no more than 3 miles. http://mileage.railmiles.org shows that there are six such routes, but all of them use the Blackburn - Hellifeld route which has summer Sunday trains only.

In order to find any trains at all on which a Chester - Long Preston route Any Permitted ticket can be used on these 341 days, one has to be creative in the interpretation of the Routeing Guide. An example on pages F12 - F15 of the Guide states:
The National Routeing Guide in detail said:
The permitted route is via the shortest distance to the first routeing point over which a scheduled train service runs, then via the permitted route, then via the shortest distance with a scheduled train service from the destination routeing point to the destination.
This introduces the concept of the shortest distance with a scheduled train service for the parts of a journey between origin or destination and the relevant Routeing Points. It does not explicitly say that there has to be a scheduled train service for the part of a journey between the appropriate Routeing Points, but it's all we have so let's use it.

Once again thanks to http://mileage.railmiles.org which suggests that the shortest route is
Chester - Runcorn East - Warrington BQ [18.25 miles]
Warrington BQ - Wigan NW - Preston - Lancaster [48.00 miles]
Lancaster - Wennington - Long Preston [32.75 miles]
Total 99 miles

Distances from National Rail Timetable because that's what NRG states must be used.
The concession of using routes taking the route of shortest distance or a distance longer by no more than 3 miles adds the possibility of visiting Bare Lane, but that does not significantly increase journey opportunities.
 

EMT Commuter

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I'm planning on travelling Leeds to Carlisle on Sunday 30th May, departing at 17.33. Can anyone tell how crowded the service is likely to be and what trains operate it.

Thanks
 

323235

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usually 158s,quite often with a dogbox attached.

Can't comment on peak loading, although id expect the heaviest loading to occur between Leeds -Skipton.

Edit : Just noticed that your travelling on a Sunday not a weekday, so it will probably won't be too busy.
 
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323235

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Yeh sorry force of habit. i've never known 153s to smell though, so i think the name is just purely related to the size. If it was down to Smell i think the name would have to go to Pendolinos or Voyagers.

My favourite name for 153s though has to be a Skkkkkatttteboard.
 

158757

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I'm planning on travelling Leeds to Carlisle on Sunday 30th May, departing at 17.33. Can anyone tell how crowded the service is likely to be and what trains operate it.

Thanks

Booked 1x158, usually quiet so you'll get a seat.
 

EMT Commuter

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Messages
35
Yeh sorry force of habit. i've never known 153s to smell though, so i think the name is just purely related to the size. If it was down to Smell i think the name would have to go to Pendolinos or Voyagers.

Most 153s I've been on seem to have a rat p**s smell in the luggage rack area. Anyone else or is it just me?
 
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