Chester to Knighton price, rise again :(

[connor7777]

When I did this journey in march, it cost me £28.40 return, I was coming back 2 days later you see.

I have just done a random look on nationalrail and now it says its £29.20 travelling in May.

Have I missed something here?

 

[323235]

Yeh there is a minor fare change in May.

 

[connor7777]

what! your joking arnt you

2 increases every year from now on, thats not on is it?

 

[First class]

what! your joking arnt you

2 increases every year from now on, thats not on is it?

Been like that for a while (at least since privatisation?)...

Typically January, May and September.

Major fare changes occur (usually) in January. May/September can be slight changes.

Other increases/decreases can occur outside of the fares setting rounds usually to correct anomalies/mistakes, but the TOC has to pay Atos Origin/ATOC more money to implement these amendments, so most just choose to wait until January/May/Sept.

80p isn't exactly going to break the bank...

 

[connor7777]

80p is actually gona break the bank

im stretched on the current fare as it is.

honest i never knew there were 3 increases a year, 1st i heard of it now.

 

[MikeWh]

80p isn't exactly going to break the bank...

That's quite a sweeping generalisation there. 80p might not mean much to you, but I can assure you it will mean a lot to very many people who are seeing their budgets squeezed from every angle.

 

[yorkie]

If you return the same day, it can be done for £16.80 by combining two tickets for the one journey:
Chester-Shrewsbury CDR £8.70 (Not valid before 0830 Mon-Fri)
Shrewsbury-Knighton SDR £8.10

Alternatively don't travel or use alternative transport, and send them a letter telling them that their increase has meant they lost a customer (not that ATW will care; the Government appears to want to deter us from travelling to save costs on providing additional rolling stock, and they are doing this by requiring TOCs to put up prices).

 

[bb21]

80p isn't exactly going to break the bank...

2.8%

No not a lot, but it is on top of inflation-busting annual rises in January. Not on. What shall we expect in September? Another 2%?

 

[connor7777]

mind you, if the price went up by 80p every time, now that adds up.

 

[First class]

2.8%

No not a lot, but it is on top of inflation-busting annual rises in January. Not on. What shall we expect in September? Another 2%?

Arriva Trains Wales happens to operate diesel trains, using diesel fuel (we all know about the massive increases on an almost daily basis, I also know they bulk buy, but still getting dearer). The cost of parts (to repair the trains, oh and the refurbishment program), has probably increased by at least inflation (circa 5%).

Sure, there is an element of profitability in these rises, but when costs are increasing, profits reduce. You can either cut things (like refurbishment programs, maintenance, staffing etc), or put fares up to maintain a reasonable return. I'd rather pay the 80p.

People need to get out of this way of thinking that fare rises are only implemented to make massive profits. Reality is that the price rise simply reflects TOC overhead increases.

If fares had increased by 5.5% in April, (the RPI rate), in real terms they have not "increased".

There is usually an alternative - if you don't want to use the train, get a bus! Will take you 6 hours each way though, and I doubt it will be that much cheaper!

btw the bus way is:

41A Chester-Whitchurch
511 Whitchurch-Shrewsbury
435 Shrewsbury - Bromfield
740 Bromfield - Knighton

If we assume £3-4 SINGLE per bus , (£12-£16), that is £24-£32 return with a far longer journey time.

I think people need to see the train as a "premium" option compared to other public transport modes, offering faster journey times, generally better comfort and service levels and in this case, competitive fares.

 

[bb21]

If fares had increased by 5.5% in April, (the RPI rate), in real terms they have not "increased".

But the RPI is a measure for annual inflation. Inflation before January was already taken care of with the introduction of NFM08. Are you telling me that costs increased by circa 5.5% between January and April?

Now if RPI increases by 5% and the TOC raises fares by 5% at each round of fares revision (which is what I understand from what you have just said), then ... (You get my gist.)

I'm not saying that they are all in for massive profits at each round of fares revision, however it would be very difficult to explain to the general public why a further round of increases is needed when the January fares increase was already above inflation (which is a measure over 12 months).

 

[merlodlliw]

Arriva Trains Wales happens to operate diesel trains, using diesel fuel (we all know about the massive increases on an almost daily basis, I also know they bulk buy, but still getting dearer). The cost of parts (to repair the trains, oh and the refurbishment program), has probably increased by at least inflation (circa 5%).

Sure, there is an element of profitability in these rises, but when costs are increasing, profits reduce. You can either cut things (like refurbishment programs, maintenance, staffing etc), or put fares up to maintain a reasonable return. I'd rather pay the 80p.

People need to get out of this way of thinking that fare rises are only implemented to make massive profits. Reality is that the price rise simply reflects TOC overhead increases.

If fares had increased by 5.5% in April, (the RPI rate), in real terms they have not "increased".

There is usually an alternative - if you don't want to use the train, get a bus! Will take you 6 hours each way though, and I doubt it will be that much cheaper!

btw the bus way is:

41A Chester-Whitchurch
511 Whitchurch-Shrewsbury
435 Shrewsbury - Bromfield
740 Bromfield - Knighton

If we assume £3-4 SINGLE per bus , (£12-£16), that is £24-£32 return with a far longer journey time.

I think people need to see the train as a "premium" option compared to other public transport modes, offering faster journey times, generally better comfort and service levels and in this case, competitive fares.

Arriva have an unreal "No Growth" 15 year franchise,dont spend money on infrastructure unless someone else pays, I can not think of any programme of improvement to infrastructure or stock that ATW has undertaken by itself,without WAG or others contributing the lions share.
The line in question HOWL covers areas where there as never been any other form of public transport, I also use the line & find another increase to be immoral for use of the clapped out stock used. Also it is not a premium option, as there is no alternative for the majority of the line. Also pensioners & those working don't get two or three increases a year.

 

[1V53]

Arriva have an unreal "No Growth" 15 year franchise,dont spend money on infrastructure unless someone else pays, I can not think of any programme of improvement to infrastructure or stock that ATW has undertaken by itself,without WAG or others contributing the lions share.
The line in question HOWL covers areas where there as never been any other form of public transport, I also use the line & find another increase to be immoral for use of the clapped out stock used. Also it is not a premium option, as there is no alternative for the majority of the line. Also pensioners & those working don't get two or three increases a year.

It is not an increase for the "clapped out" (150's refurbed and 153's being refurbed) stock though. Diesel is a massive cost which is increasing fast, and staff costs are on the up due to high RPI figures. I've made the argument before on other threads re staff costs: just because many are not receiving increases to costs of living, this doesn't make that situation right or proper. So railway staff are getting a pay rise, diesel is going up, you have to pay more.

If you have insured your car recently or filled it with fuel you will be aware of the big increases in motoring.

Makes me laugh as people say train and car travel is unaffordable and yet we see more people on the trains and the roads are just as busy!

 

[merlodlliw]

It is not an increase for the "clapped out" (150's refurbed and 153's being refurbed) stock though. Diesel is a massive cost which is increasing fast, and staff costs are on the up due to high RPI figures. I've made the argument before on other threads re staff costs: just because many are not receiving increases to costs of living, this doesn't make that situation right or proper. So railway staff are getting a pay rise, diesel is going up, you have to pay more.

If you have insured your car recently or filled it with fuel you will be aware of the big increases in motoring.

Makes me laugh as people say train and car travel is unaffordable and yet we see more people on the trains and the roads are just as busy!

We are not discussing private motoring costs which work on the days spot price, but a Company buying Derv by the Tonne at a fixed price, some real people have no choice but to use a car to live, where there is no public transport, Now give me an example of where ATW have spent their own profits on refurb etc in Wales ,without WAG contributing to it.

 

[1V53]

We are not discussing private motoring costs which work on the days spot price, but a Company buying Derv by the Tonne at a fixed price, some real people have no choice but to use a car to live, where there is no public transport, Now give me an example of where ATW have spent their own profits on refurb etc in Wales ,without WAG contributing to it.

I'm not sure what relevance there is in your last sentence. My point re the units is you say these are "clapped out" yet both are being or have been refurbed. I'm not however making the point that fare increases are paying for these, merely pointing out a salient fact after your earlier post. Who is paying for the refurbs is irrelevant therefore, but you sought to bring the condition of the units into the discussion. It isn't relevant.

Diesel costs are going up and up, so whenever anyone is buying it it is still going to be more expensive now than 6-12 months ago! Just because you buy it in advance doesn't open up a trend bucking market where prices are falling!

Private motoring costs are totally relevant as it is a direct competitor. And when costs go up for one you can bet they do for another as insurance and fuel are two of the big costs. Staff costs are another. RPI is high too, so yes fares will go up.

 

[merlodlliw]

My point is ATW will up prices at the drop of a hat,I am well aware of the increase in Diesel (insurance is another matter), but some Companies to survive have absorbed some of the cost of increased diesel.

My opinion of the 150s is rough, Has ATW is so heavily subsidised, I find fare increases by stealth several times a year to be wrong.

Also the taxation of rail diesel is far less than road diesel.


Bob

 

[1V53]

My point is ATW will up prices at the drop of a hat,I am well aware of the increase in Diesel (insurance is another matter), but some Companies to survive have absorbed some of the cost of increased diesel.

My opinion of the 150s is rough, Has ATW is so heavily subsidised, I find fare increases by stealth several times a year to be wrong.

Also the taxation of rail diesel is far less than road diesel.


Bob

Atw aren't a charity any more than any of the other TOC's are.

The 150's are lighter and fresher now, but you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear. Sadly they have to make do with what they've got.

As for diesel, I'm not talking about taxation. Check the crude oil price.

 

[merlodlliw]

Atw aren't a charity any more than any of the other TOC's are.

The 150's are lighter and fresher now, but you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear. Sadly they have to make do with what they've got.

As for diesel, I'm not talking about taxation. Check the crude oil price.

Ok ill leave it at that, see you


Bob