Chester Station Upgrade

[Llandudno]

Full plans are here. Some fairly minor changes really. Gateline is expanded and parallel to platform rather than diagonal, and new ticket desks under the stairs (which will block the archway entrance sometimes used when the station’s really busy). Plus some changes to toilets, waiting rooms and staff areas. Also looks like the bookies and current travel centre are merged to create a single larger “retail space”.


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Hopefully the enlarged retail space will be a Sainsburys or M&S food shop.

It’s quite a trek from Chester station to one of the ‘European’ convenience stores on Brook Street

 

[Bletchleyite]

Personally I think better value would be to create an inset bay at the west end of P7, like at Birmingham New Street. 7 is currently c.300m long, so a 4-car with stopping margin 3 times fits quite nicely. If any Chester-Manchester services are longer there's always the bays.

I seem to recall there is a plan for a second Merseyrail platform, though I'm not wholly sure where, but I guess it's not in the scope of this work.

 

[John Luxton]

All I want to know is what was where the double arrow now

That was where the station clock was originally located when built. I only discovered this myself fairly recently as I always wondered about it. The location of the clock was changed to its present west end location when City Road was realigned so as to be visible from a distance, the move dates from Victorian times. It was a blank space for many, many years. The BR arrow is a very recent attachment probably within the last 20-30 years.

This is a link to a photo with a tram outside the station and you can see the space is blank. https://www.ukphotoarchive.org.uk/photos-of-cheshire/h1549A40F#h1549a40f

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I seem to recall there is a plan for a second Merseyrail platform, though I'm not wholly sure where, but I guess it's not in the scope of this work.

That would be a P8 on a new island beyond the main one (P4-7), reached by a new bridge - a bit like what is going to happen at Huddersfield.
From the press item I think there are some improvements to the main island facilities, but nothing major.
The concourse diagram suggests the ticket office is moving out into the open concourse area, and close to the new ATM location under the stairs.

 

[cle]

That would be a P8 on a new island beyond the main one (P4-7), reached by a new bridge - a bit like what is going to happen at Huddersfield.
From the press item I think there are some improvements to the main island facilities, but nothing major.
The concourse diagram suggests the ticket office is moving out into the open concourse area, and close to the new ATM location under the stairs.

Do you have plans for this? So current Mersey platform would become another through line?

I do wonder about the occupation (splitting/joining Liverpool to Shrewsbury/Cardiff+Llanduds in future, each way) - plus sometimes on Euston-Holyheads.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Do you have plans for this? So current Mersey platform would become another through line?
I do wonder about the occupation (splitting/joining Liverpool to Shrewsbury/Cardiff+Llanduds in future, each way) - plus sometimes on Euston-Holyheads.

I don't know whether the P8 idea has got any formal planning status, but it's the recommendation of the cross-border economic study, linked to the North Wales Metro proposals.
P7 always was a through line, but is blocked 4 times an hour by the Merseyrail terminator and is the only platform it can use.
TfW do also use it, usually for the Llandudno-Manchester train which runs through to the eastern end.

 

[VideozVideoz]

It's not a new concept, MKC has one on the footbridge for people who've arrived from non-barrier stations (or gatelines left open) to purchase a ticket for the gates. It saved me once when I picked up the wrong smartcard, although I have no doubt it sells a disproportionately high number of Bletchley-MKC tickets.

How does this work then because ordinarily gateline / revenue protection staff can charge a penalty fare (where it operates) for travelling without a valid ticket?

 

[markymark2000]

Users will also know that the diagonal gate line forces poor use of the available space, but whether any of that will change we'll have to see.

That's literally in the plans to change

The ticket office should be where wh smith is . Ditch the coffee shop for a good waiting room . Add another for merseyrail . Canopy the whole station and get rid of the pigeons and cramped gate line. Add a walkway with no steps in a arc .

Crikey, you've clearly got a bee in your bonet about Chester station. Ticket office right on the door doesn't feel very nice in any station. I can't think of any major station where the ticket office is on the front door. The kiosk style I like the idea of but it would have to be regularly staffed else it's useless. It then becomes 'a help point with no staff' and no one likes that.
Coffee Shop - the only issue with the coffee shop is that it's too small. Costa often gets too busy as the other retail occupiers are useless. Chester station doesn't seem to be making any attempt to get better tennants in. I presume they want tenants who will pay stupid amounts of rent plus percentage of takings and no one is willing to do that.
Waiting rooms - Chester is very much a turn up and go station. People don't tend to stay around too long. Waiting room for Merseyrail is in the lift lobby area. That's also a waiting room. Merseyrail is turn up and go anyway so the average wait is less than 10 minutes. A few benches suffice this kind of wait.
Canopy the whole station - there is no point. Much of the platforms aren't used to the extremes. Bridging some of the gaps would be good but full canopy is a waste of money. No one goes to the far ends of any of the platforms to wait. EVER!
Ridding pigeons - Bit hard on an open station.
Walkeway with no steps in a ark - Expand on this?

I would also add better disabled access . Everything feels cramped and put in as an afterthought . If you are in a rush getting to a platform is a problem . The stairs are a deathtrap as well.

What better disabled access? I admit I am an able bodied person when it comes to train stations but Chester station seems pretty accessible except for the gateline but the gateline is going to gain an additional accessible gate and an additional normal gate so less cramped gateline should mean disabled people find it easier to find staff and go through.

Am a regular user of this station (we as a family have Chester Zoo memberships!) Gateline is very cramped and queues build up - surely it could be better organised?? The main concourse toilets are very scruffy too so pleased they will be refurbed. Signage throughout the station is poor too and could definitely be improved.

The plan is to change the gateline. The toilets are awful and always stink. The toilets need to be bigger in my opinion. Only 4 toilet spaces per gender isn't enough for a station of this size

So there's room for another footbridge perhaps.

May be room but it wouldn't really be used as all of the passenger flows go towards the centre of the station for either exiting or connections between platforms which often are the A to B ends (or vice versa). It'd be a waste of money.

Hopefully the enlarged retail space will be a Sainsburys or M&S food shop.

It’s quite a trek from Chester station to one of the ‘European’ convenience stores on Brook Street

100%, this is what is missing at Chester station, a proper convenience store. The 3 outlets charge daft prices and now WH Smiths has resorted to opening and closing on a whim. Opens when it want's, shuts a few times over the day at random times. Closes fully for the day when it wants. It's useless.

Closest proper convenience store with half decent prices is McColls.



With regards to a new island platform, Chester doesn't need it. What it needs is more points to enable trains to bypass others. A set of points between P7a and P7b onto the current Down Through would mean TFW can still use platform 7 by bypassing the Merseyrail in the platform. If if was 3rd railed as well, you've got an extra platform for Merseyrail as long as it's 3 car units. Platform 4 similarly, a link from the up/dn through line to platform 4 (link between 4a and 4b) would mean any through trains could by pass the connecting trains.
Remodelling the station to the west could mean that trains coming off platform 4 could get onto the correct line quicker. Remodelling to the east could massively reduce conflicts seeing as all platforms link back to basically 2 single lines. That would speed up services and massively reduce instances of sitting outside the station waiting for paths. That's solved Chesters problems with no need for another platform and all the much higher costs which will come with that. Chesters platforms are underutilised as they are, just need the points putting in to enable bypasses.

 

[Sheridan]

With regards to a new island platform, Chester doesn't need it. What it needs is more points to enable trains to bypass others. A set of points between P7a and P7b onto the current Down Through would mean TFW can still use platform 7 by bypassing the Merseyrail in the platform. If if was 3rd railed as well, you've got an extra platform for Merseyrail as long as it's 3 car units. Platform 4 similarly, a link from the up/dn through line to platform 4 (link between 4a and 4b) would mean any through trains could by pass the connecting trains.
Remodelling the station to the west could mean that trains coming off platform 4 could get onto the correct line quicker. Remodelling to the east could massively reduce conflicts seeing as all platforms link back to basically 2 single lines. That would speed up services and massively reduce instances of sitting outside the station waiting for paths. That's solved Chesters problems with no need for another platform and all the much higher costs which will come with that. Chesters platforms are underutilised as they are, just need the points putting in to enable bypasses.

I’m not convinced all that would be much cheaper than a new platform.

 

[Bletchleyite]

How does this work then because ordinarily gateline / revenue protection staff can charge a penalty fare (where it operates) for travelling without a valid ticket?

You really have to be going at it to get a PF or MG11 from LNR. They are mostly decidedly theoretical, unless a very occasional RPI sting is in progress in which case they likely turn that TVM off. Must admit I'd not noticed it before though!

 

[507020]

On the full plans I’ve noticed “heritage style new seating” when Chester General was a joint station of the GWR and L&NWR/LMS, why doesn’t it have any of the historic GWR or BR(W) benches that can be found at many stations?

I can’t find the new location of the cash machine.

 

[markymark2000]

I can’t find the new location of the cash machine.

That's the biggest issue for me. Very handy to have considering it's still rare for taxis to take card payments for various reasons. Very, very well used cash machines from my experience too.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

On the full plans I’ve noticed “heritage style new seating” when Chester General was a joint station of the GWR and L&NWR/LMS, why doesn’t it have any of the historic GWR or BR(W) benches that can be found at many stations?

The station passed to the LMR at nationalisation, and was maroon until late in (maybe throughout?) the BR period.
Similarly Shrewsbury joint station passed to the WR so it got the chocolate and cream treatment.
In 1963 BR Regional boundaries were redrawn to put the WR west midlands routes into the LMR, so some "LM" features began to appear on the route (eg upper quadrant signals in Shrewsbury).
I don't think there was ever much GWR about Chester station, and I forget what the GWR bay was like (old P1-3, also used by some LNWR services eg to Mold/Ruthin).
Similarly with the Birkenhead Railway (Chester-Birkenhead/Warrington BQ and branches), it always looked "LM" to me (eg signal boxes at Helsby and Hooton), despite WR stock/engines running over it into the 1960s.

The paradox at Shrewsbury is that the exceptional Severn Bridge Jn signal box, also Crewe Jn, are actually LNWR creations, from the time of resignalling in the 1900s.
LNWR's Crewe South Jn, also resignalled at that time, had essentially a slightly smaller version of the Severn Bridge box.
The LNWR and GWR had maintenance contracts on their joint lines which alternated every 20 years.

 

[kieron]

Waiting rooms - Chester is very much a turn up and go station. People don't tend to stay around too long.

I've seen plenty of people waiting, but they usually stay on the platform or the concourse rather than use the waiting rooms. The rooms would be rammed if people ever did descend on them en masse.

Much of the platforms aren't used to the extremes. Bridging some of the gaps would be good but full canopy is a waste of money. No one goes to the far ends of any of the platforms to wait. EVER!

People sometimes wait at the end of platform 3b because that's sometimes where the train stops. The canopy already reaches most of the way to the end, though.

 

[markymark2000]

People sometimes wait at the end of platform 3b because that's sometimes where the train stops. The canopy already reaches most of the way to the end, though.

I can tell you, 99% of Chester passengers do not walk up platform 3b. The majority wait in the area of platform 3 between the concourse and where the points. They then have an almighty shock when the train enters via the set of points and they have to race up to the train.

Infact, to prove this, I have this photo. From July 2022. Extremely busy platform awaiting a train heading up the coast and as you can see, the crowd thins the further to the top of the platform with only a couple of people at the end of the canopy. This was a train which was only due to stop in 3B (not all of 3).

People don't use the extremes of platforms. EVER. I'm a regular traveller out of Chester, I know this stuff.

I've seen plenty of people waiting, but they usually stay on the platform or the concourse rather than use the waiting rooms. The rooms would be rammed if people ever did descend on them en masse.

Literally what most people do at most hub stations. It's better for it to be this way because the platforms can change last minute, especially for the Shrewsbury - Coast reversing services.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

I can tell you, 99% of Chester passengers do not walk up platform 3b. The majority wait in the area of platform 3 between the concourse and where the points. They then have an almighty shock when the train enters via the set of points and they have to race up to the train.

Infact, to prove this, I have this photo. From July 2022. Extremely busy platform awaiting a train heading up the coast and as you can see, the crowd thins the further to the top of the platform with only a couple of people at the end of the canopy. This was a train which was only due to stop in 3B (not all of 3).

People don't use the extremes of platforms. EVER. I'm a regular traveller out of Chester, I know this stuff.



Literally what most people do at most hub stations. It's better for it to be this way because the platforms can change last minute, especially for the Shrewsbury - Coast reversing services.

That platform looks packed! Is that normal for Chester?

 

[yorksrob]

That platform looks packed! Is that normal for Chester?

It was when I was there last year.

 

[markymark2000]

That platform looks packed! Is that normal for Chester?

Can be. It's a train up the coast, in July.

I think the one before had been cancelled as well

 

[zwk500]

People don't use the extremes of platforms. EVER. I'm a regular traveller out of Chester, I know this stuff.

Interestingly, your photo shows people using the full extreme of the canopy, which has also been demonstrated at other stations where full-length canopies (or other cover) has been installed, such as London Bridge. Appreciate Chester doesn't get as many long trains and people may be more likely to wait in the middle at Chester.

 

[markymark2000]

Interestingly, your photo shows people using the full extreme of the canopy, which has also been demonstrated at other stations where full-length canopies (or other cover) has been installed, such as London Bridge. Appreciate Chester doesn't get as many long trains and people may be more likely to wait in the middle at Chester.

Shows some people standing at the end of the canopy but it really thins out to being just a few. To be fair, if you want half a chance at a seat, you'd stand up there too as then you can run to the door. If you're too far back into the platform, you've no chance at a seat or possibly even getting on.

The amount of trains which do stop at the extreme end of the platform are vere few and add to that, people still aren't standing that far in any reasonable numbers. Extending canopies to platform extremes would be a waste.

Linking the platform 5 and 6 canopies to the main 4 and 7 canopies would be a good idea however. Save people getting wet when walking to p5/6.

 

[John Luxton]

I don't think there was ever much GWR about Chester station, and I forget what the GWR bay was like (old P1-3, also used by some LNWR services eg to Mold/Ruthin).

I noticed some months ago when buying a ticket that in the staff section of the ticket office one of those wall mounted First World War GWR Roll of Honours which were displayed at many principal GWR stations.

Perhaps as part of the revamp it should be in a public area. There would be a genuine item of GWR heritage from Chester Station.

On the subject of LMS heritage at the station I note that during 2023 the the London and Holyhead milage board has been replaced either with a new one or the restored original. I had meant to photograph the original which was getting a bit shabby and when I went looking for it noted it has disappeared. A few weeks later I noticed it was back looking very smart.

 

[kieron]

People don't use the extremes of platforms. EVER. I'm a regular traveller out of Chester, I know this stuff.

If you had worked at Chester station, you may have the experience to make an absolute statement like that. As it is, all I can add is that fabricated statistics don't make an exaggerated statement any more credible.

Literally what most people do at most hub stations. It's better for it to be this way because the platforms can change last minute, especially for the Shrewsbury - Coast reversing services.

You'd previously appeared to dismiss a desire for better waiting rooms by describing Chester as a "turn up and go station". If it's a "hub station", then having somewhere sheltered to wait is a good thing. Personally, I don't know what the plans are as I can't identify most of the symbols in the proposed platform 3 waiting room.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Chester is a significant interchange station, not just "turn up and go" (check ORR statistics).
I for one always go to the far end of the platforms, as the train will pull up alongside and you stand a better chance of a seat that way.
The only downside is when platforms are switched (usually P3 to P4, requiring a panicked charge over the bridge).
Passengers on P2 don't have the luxury of a canopy, and the adjacent P3 canopy has a gap in it, just where it might be useful.

 

[markymark2000]

At times over the past year, I've spent more time in Chester station then their staff (quote from them). It'd be a useless waste of money. People don't use the extremes of platforms.

You'd previously appeared to dismiss a desire for better waiting rooms by describing Chester as a "turn up and go station". If it's a "hub station", then having somewhere sheltered to wait is a good thing. Personally, I don't know what the plans are as I can't identify most of the symbols in the proposed platform 3 waiting room.

The proposed platform 3 waiting room is just the current quiet area with the few seats.

As for somewhere 'sheltered', most of the station is sheltered or canopied. The cafes both have seats, the platforms have seats. There is the better waiting room on P4/7. It's not like Chester has nothing. There's proposed to be more seating on the concourse too. You don't need dedicated waiting rooms.

Chester is a turn up and go hub station. One of the major spokes is every 15 minutes. The other lines, people seem to turn up 5-10 mins before the train.

What I don't want is my money as a taxpayer being wasted on needless things like full length canopies and waiting rooms when they won't be used and/or there is no need for them.

Chester is a significant interchange station, not just "turn up and go" (check ORR statistics).
I for one always go to the far end of the platforms, as the train will pull up alongside and you stand a better chance of a seat that way.
The only downside is when platforms are switched (usually P3 to P4, requiring a panicked charge over the bridge).
Passengers on P2 don't have the luxury of a canopy, and the adjacent P3 canopy has a gap in it, just where it might be useful.

The busiest line out of the station is every 15 minutes. That's turn up and go. The other lines are less often but being a people watcher tends to show that most people turn up not long before their train.

As for canopies on P2 and covering some gaps in existing canopies, I agree with that. No issue there.
Just because you stand at the platform extremes, doesn't mean everyone does.

 

[cle]

When London trains revert to hourly (hopefully one day) - it will take on more of a long distance flavour again. Leeds services are back, and there will be more Cardiff (ex-Liverpool) eventually too. It will always have a mixed nature in terms of purpose.

 

[Russel]

I had a tight connection of 4 minutes last year at Chester owing to a late running connection from Crewe resulting in me missing my Holyhead train, if the signage and layout made a little more sense, I think I would have made the connection easily.

It's almost as bad as Edinburgh.

 

[FGW_DID]

The reason why Chester has a large gap in the canopy between the main one over P4/P7 and the Canopy over the P5/P6 bays:

Report on the Derailment and consequent Fire on 8th May 1972 at Chester General Station in the London Midland Region British Railways :: The Railways Archive

Archive of UK railways documents

www.railwaysarchive.co.uk

It was damaged by fire, the section removed and never replaced after the rail accident of 8th May 1972 when a Class 24 hauled petrol train ran away and collided with a stationary DMU.

Photos from David Ford (Flickr):

Chester dmu coach on platform, CLass 24 5028 behind May 72 C0929

Explore DavidWF2009's 25093 photos on Flickr!

flic.kr

Chester damaged dmu, Class 40 and 25 beyond dragging wrecked Class 24 clear May 72 C936

Explore DavidWF2009's 25093 photos on Flickr!

flic.kr

 

[Some guy]

The elephant in the room is Chester needs to be electrified it makes no sense why it isn’t as a bit of the Crewe to Chester line is already electrified up to the depot so shouldn’t be hard them doing the rest

 

[Goofle]

I travelled through Chester most weekends during my student day in the early 90's. I spent many hours sat on Chester station on a Sunday waiting for the very infrequent service to Birmingham.
I can honestly say i can't think of any more desolate windy place on the planet!

 

[Pacef8]

The chester chronicle has the visual renders and a new hoole bridge featured.
No link due to clickbate from them.