Cheshire school buses to be withdrawn

[northwichcat]

Cheshire West and Chester Council has launched a transport consultation on plans to completely remove travel support for pupils attending church schools from September 2012.

If the proposed changes go ahead this will result in all council provided transport being withdrawn. It does not just mean the withdrawal of subsidy.

This is going to increase the amount of traffic around the Hartford campus. This is already heavily congested at both the start and end of the school day. I raised the question of traffic at the consultation exercise and was told it had been considered in the impact assessment, it is not mentioned in the documents on CWAC website.

http://www.saveourschoolbusesnorthwich.com/SOBS/Welcome.html

As pupils for St Nicholas school and Mid Cheshire college come from places including Northwich, Knutsford, Lostock Gralam, Mobberley, Plumley, Cuddington Winsford and Acton Bridge, this could put a lot of pressure on rail services in the area.

 

[anthony263]

I know some of the local bus operators in my area, have taken some school routes on as a commercial service and do seeem to be doing ok.

 

[WatcherZero]

Wigan council voted to remove the grant support and the couple of buses it directly ran starting Sep 2012 last week. Instead their encouraging schools to set up their own schemes where parents pay in collectivley and the school hires a bus.

 

[radamfi]

Could removal of school buses mean that pupils are no longer able to get to school?

 

[northwichcat]

Could removal of school buses mean that pupils are no longer able to get to school?

It could mean that some pupils have to change schools but if they can't get to school the council will have to step in.

 

[WatcherZero]

Councils have a responsibility to ensure everyone is within 3 miles of a school place, if one is not available then they have to pay for the child to get to school. However if the child opts to go to a faith school (or secular school) which is more than 3 miles away when a place is availble nearer then they dont have to pay. However a lot of councils have paid for children to attend more distant faith schools voluntarily which is now ending.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Councils have a responsibility to ensure everyone is within 3 miles of a school place, if one is not available then they have to pay for the child to get to school. However if the child opts to go to a faith school (or secular school) which is more than 3 miles away when a place is availble nearer then they dont have to pay. However a lot of councils have paid for children to attend more distant faith schools voluntarily which is now ending.

I am thinking of the Muslim community....will this affect them in any way, in places such as Oldham, Bolton and Blackburn, should the Cheshire situation become more widespread.

 

[WestCoast]

I am thinking of the Muslim community....will this affect them in any way, in places such as Oldham, Bolton and Blackburn, should the Cheshire situation become more widespread.

Bolton and Oldham are protected by TfGM, who will have more funds for this type of thing.

Blackburn is covered by Blackburn with Darwen Council, who are a unitary authority.

From what I have observed, school transport is probably safer when the PTE or an urban unitary authority takes responsibility. County Councils and other local authorities tend to have less funds and resources for it.

Issues could still arise though.

 

[northwichcat]

However a lot of councils have paid for children to attend more distant faith schools voluntarily which is now ending.

From what a Catholic bishop said on the radio it is not voluntary. An Act introduced in the 1940s stated that the church should fund the upkeep of a faith school in return for the local authority providing free transport for all children of a faith to be transported to their nearest faith school. There have been legal proceedings against Nottingham County Council for trying to withdraw the free transport part of that agreement and still expecting the church to maintain the upkeep of the school.

I'm sure the councils would prefer the agreement to end as church schools are generally well maintained and if the council had to fund maintaining the faith schools instead of free transport, they could easily argue they don't have a large budget for maintaining the school and can't maintain the same level of funding as the church did.

 

[daikilo]

Cheshire West and Chester Council has launched a transport consultation on plans to completely remove travel support for pupils attending church schools from September 2012.

If the proposed changes go ahead this will result in all council provided transport being withdrawn. It does not just mean the withdrawal of subsidy.

This is going to increase the amount of traffic around the Hartford campus. This is already heavily congested at both the start and end of the school day. I raised the question of traffic at the consultation exercise and was told it had been considered in the impact assessment, it is not mentioned in the documents on CWAC website.

http://www.saveourschoolbusesnorthwich.com/SOBS/Welcome.html

As pupils for St Nicholas school and Mid Cheshire college come from places including Northwich, Knutsford, Lostock Gralam, Mobberley, Plumley, Cuddington Winsford and Acton Bridge, this could put a lot of pressure on rail services in the area.

And if it does not apply to CofE, why not? And in some cases, is there an alternative for pupils (I am thinking of e.g. Burton, Wirral County Primary which is to the best of my knowledge still indebted to Bishop Wilson for providing the funds to build it).

 

[northwichcat]

And if it does not apply to CofE, why not? And in some cases, is there an alternative for pupils (I am thinking of e.g. Burton, Wirral County Primary which is to the best of my knowledge still indebted to Bishop Wilson for providing the funds to build it).

As they say 'faith schools' the proposed changes will apply to CofE schools as well. However, I don't know if the quoted 1940s Act was for Catholic schools or for all faith schools.

 

[radamfi]

Is any child prepared to walk three miles to school these days?

Are there any stats as to the proportion of children going to school by car by country? The developed country (which normally lets Britain off the hook in such league tables) that does buses the least has a nationwide door to door bus service. Therefore it may be that the UK leads the developed world in car use to school!

 

[WatcherZero]

WestCoast, Oldham/Bolton are affected as much as any other council, its a council funding decision (from education budget) not a PTE transport issue. Some councils may decide to carry on funding it by cutting elsewhere but most which have this system are ending it.

Radamfi, the three miles doesnt stop parents driving or putting their children on buses as opposed to walking. The difference is if they put them on a bus they would have to pay the fares whereas if the schoool was more than three miles away the council pays the bus fares.

Jcollins, most of wigans schools are Catholic and CoE (in fact only around 20% are actually secular). This is historical based on large church going population influenced by Liverpool and Salford Diocese.

 

[northwichcat]

Jcollins, most of wigans schools are Catholic and CoE (in fact only around 20% are actually secular). This is historical based on large church going population influenced by Liverpool and Salford Diocese.

When I said it wasn't voluntary whether councils pay for faith school transport I meant it's not voluntary for Catholic children going to Catholic schools and CofE children going to CofE schools. AFAIK children which haven't been baptised as a certain religion only get free transport to faith schools if it's the nearest school. I remember one atheist family challenging that on the local news saying their children should get free transport to the nearest non-faith school but the council said no as they have the option of opting their child out of RE lessons.

 

[WestCoast]

WestCoast, Oldham/Bolton are affected as much as any other council, its a council funding decision (from education budget) not a PTE transport issue. Some councils may decide to carry on funding it by cutting elsewhere but most which have this system are ending it.

I thought TfGM worked with local councils on the issue, reflected in the "yellow school bus scheme" and so on...

 

[WatcherZero]

Yellow buses are owned and operated by the councils (though TfGM is sometimes a funder), they operate dedicated school runs for areas where theres no public bus service as well as being available for school trips during the day, usually parents pay a fee direct to the school though they are used by the free travel students as well in which case they dont pay anything. Its different to the issue of funding free bus travel when a child lives too far away as in most of those cases commercial services exist and the council simply reimburses the parent for the costs.

 

[WestCoast]

Yellow buses are owned and operated by the councils (though TfGM is sometimes a funder), they operate dedicated school runs for areas where theres no public bus service as well as being available for school trips during the day. Its different to the issue of funding free bus travel when a child lives too far away as in most of those cases commercial services exist and the council simply reimburses the parent for the costs.

OK, fair enough.

 

[MCR247]

There was a similar consultation in Nottingham, nothing ever came of it, probably because NCT then had to put on extra buses to cope with the extra pax

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Oldham/Bolton are affected as much as any other council, its a council funding decision (from education budget) not a PTE transport issue. Some councils may decide to carry on funding it by cutting elsewhere but most which have this system are ending it.

That is what I thought when I asked the question as how the Muslim community may have been affected, should the Cheshire example spread to other areas.

Thank you for your reply on this matter.

 

[northwichcat]

Yellow buses are owned and operated by the councils (though TfGM is sometimes a funder), they operate dedicated school runs for areas where theres no public bus service as well as being available for school trips during the day, usually parents pay a fee direct to the school though they are used by the free travel students as well in which case they dont pay anything. Its different to the issue of funding free bus travel when a child lives too far away as in most of those cases commercial services exist and the council simply reimburses the parent for the costs.

Not 100% accurate. There are 3 or 4 yellow buses that Cheshire County Council purchased that they operate themselves but Holmeswood Coaches (including Walkers and Bostocks) have converted some of their older coaches in to designated yellow buses. It's similar in other areas where First Group have converted buses to designated yellow school buses, opposed to brand new ones being purchased.

School buses do operate on the same routes as ordinary buses in some areas if demand is high enough to justify a whole bus just for school children.

 

[WatcherZero]

I was answering the question on Greater Manchester, here all yellow buses are owned by the councils (and purpose built) and their operation is tendered to the commercial operators. There are also some hybrid buses owned by TfGM whose operation is tendered but Stagecoach own some themselves as well.

 

[Stonesourscotty]

Whats happening with the Tempos due for Wigan then?

 

[WatcherZero]

Whats happening with the Tempos due for Wigan then?

Sorry dont know what you mean, is it a model of bus?

 

[northwichcat]

Sorry dont know what you mean, is it a model of bus?

This appears to be what is being referred to:
http://ipswichbus.co.uk/photogallery/konectbus/MX08UZT_28-10-08.JPG

 

[MCR247]

A tempo is a model of a bus, made by Optare, which replaced the Excel 2

 

[WatcherZero]

The Metroshuttle orders were Versa and Solos, The yellow buses were Iveco but then Wigans ordered many batches over the years and I dont know what the fleet makeup is.