Cheshire Day Ranger question

[JoeGJ1984]

A question about the Cheshire Day Ranger: the map on the Northern Rail website here (click the 'Maps' tab) differs slightly from the corresponding map on the National Rail website (see here) in that the section between Guide Bridge and Romiley via Hyde Central is shown on the Northern Rail map, but not the National Rail one. Why is this? Would the Cheshire Day Ranger be valid on a train from Manchester Piccadilly to Rose Hill Marple via Hyde Central?

And does the Cheshire Day Ranger include the Metrolink between Piccadilly and Victoria stations? (Because I think NR single/return tickets that require transferring between Piccadilly and Victoria in the middle of a journey are valid on the Metrolink for this transfer, and I think any ticket from a station in Greater Manchester to Manchester's main stations also includes free travel on the central section of the Metrolink).

 

[tony_mac]

Because I think NR single/return tickets that require transferring between Piccadilly and Victoria in the middle of a journey are valid on the Metrolink for this transfer

Apparently, they aren't - despite the fact that it is an advertised connection; leaving unwary passengers potentially liable for a £100 standard fare.

The northern rail map is probably more recent; I assume that's the map in their current leaflets so there shouldn't be a problem relying on that.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Presumably the transfer between Manchester Piccadilly and Manchester Victoria would have to be by changing at Salford Crescent, rather than via Metrolink.

According to Metrolink publicity information, only the following tickets are valid on Metrolink:-

GM Rail Ranger* County Bus & Train Saver* GM Evening Ranger*

Train Card* Wayfarer, Day Saver:- Bus and Tram: Train and Tram:

Bus, Train and Tram: Bus and Train*.

Rail tickets, which specify:-

Manchester Central Zone*

Route Metrolink* or the Metrolink stop or zone.

On Sundays only, rail tickets between Manchester and all stations to Mouldsworthvalid on Metrolink between Manchester and Altrincham.

*Valid in City Zone only

Interestingly, the National Rail map link seems to suggest availability on matchday services to/from Manchester United Football Club halt (!)

 

[John @ home]

I assume that's the map in their current leaflets

I don't think there are any current leaflets for Northern's Rovers and Rangers. The Rover and Rangers section of their website no longer links to pdf versions of the leaflets.

Until mid-February, Leeds station Travel Centre displayed the 2010 version of leaflets for local Rover and Rangers. When I checked yesterday, those where the price has changed (e.g. South Pennines Day Ranger - up from £18.50 to £19) had been withdrawn but the 2010 versions of the others were still on display.

 

[Deerfold]

According to Metrolink publicity information, only the following tickets are valid on Metrolink:-

GM Rail Ranger* County Bus & Train Saver* GM Evening Ranger*

Train Card* Wayfarer, Day Saver:- Bus and Tram: Train and Tram:

Bus, Train and Tram: Bus and Train*.

Rail tickets, which specify:-

Manchester Central Zone*

Route Metrolink* or the Metrolink stop or zone.

On Sundays only, rail tickets between Manchester and all stations to Mouldsworthvalid on Metrolink between Manchester and Altrincham.

*Valid in City Zone only

Would that this were obvious from train tickets!
If you put into National Rail "Euston - Rochdale(say)" it'll give you a route including Metrolink and a price but I can't see anywhere it says this isn't valid on Metrolink - given than cross-London transfers are included I can see how people could easily be confused by this.

 

[tony_mac]

I raised the issue with National Rail a few weeks ago, and am still waiting for a reply.
If someone does get a £100 ticket due to this, I hope they kick up a merry fuss!

 

[JoeGJ1984]

Re the difference in the maps between the one on the Northern Rail site and the one on the National Rail site, am I assuming the one on the Northern Rail site is correct? (Which includes the line going via Hyde Central).

 

[JoeGJ1984]

Bump: I'm planning a bash with the Cheshire Day Ranger this Saturday. I've noticed they have now get a leaflet for Explore North West (here) for several of their day rangers for 2011, and their Cheshire Day Ranger map includes the section of line through Hyde Central, but the equivalent one on the National Rail website (here) does not.

Am I fairly safe trusting the Northern Rail map and getting a train from Manchester Piccadilly to Rose Hill Marple via Guide Bridge and Hyde Central? (even though the page on the National Rail website does not include the line from Guide Bridge to Romiley via Hyde Central?)

 

[323235]

If an official map (produced by the company who operates the line) says its valid then as far as I'm concerned, it is valid until such validity is officially withdrawn. Just take the map with you just in case.

 

[northwichcat]

And does the Cheshire Day Ranger include the Metrolink between Piccadilly and Victoria stations? (Because I think NR single/return tickets that require transferring between Piccadilly and Victoria in the middle of a journey are valid on the Metrolink for this transfer

That's not correct. If you have a Macclesfield to Rochdale ticket, for instance, it is not valid on Metrolink services between Victoria and Piccadilly. If your journey is within Greater Manchester and requires a transfer between Victoria and Piccadilly then it is valid on Metrolink ONLY if it states "Route:Metrolink"

I think any ticket from a station in Greater Manchester to Manchester's main stations also includes free travel on the central section of the Metrolink.

Correct. Tickets to Manchester from GM stations plus a few in Cheshire and Derbyshire are issued to Manchester CTLZ which includes travel on the Metrolink between Deansgate-Castlefield and Victoria. However, as the Cheshire Day Ranger is not a ticket to Manchester I don't think anyone should assume the same will apply.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

given than cross-London transfers are included I can see how people could easily be confused by this.

Don't they need to have a symbol next to the origin/destination on the ticket to indicate that it is valid for cross London transfer on the Underground?

 

[Welshman]

[QUOTE
Don't they need to have a symbol next to the origin/destination on the ticket to indicate that it is valid for cross London transfer on the Underground?[/QUOTE]

Yes - as I understand it, only tickets marked with a Maltese Cross [+] will work the underground gates for transfers in London.

The Manchester situation is confusing. Despite the National Rail Enquiries Journey Planner advising me to travel via Metrolink from Piccadilly to Victoria on a recent journey from Rhyl to Halifax, when I checked that validity before commencing my journey I was told I would have to pay for the Metrolink section at Piccadilly.

I could have gone from Oxford Rd to Salford Crescent and back to Victoria, but as that seemed a bit of a faff and it was a nice day, I walked.

 

[island]

Isn't there a rule somewhere that says something like "for very long-distance journeys the † symbol may not be printed on a ticket requiring a cross-London transfer, but it's valid anyway"?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Tickets for journeys routed 'via London' are valid on LUL, DLR and FCC services for travel across London by an appropriate route.


The other options for Rhyl-Halifax would be Rhyl to Newton-Le-Willows, then to Victoria and on to Halifax, or Rhyl-Piccadilly-Huddersfield-Halifax.

 

[JoeGJ1984]

If an official map (produced by the company who operates the line) says its valid then as far as I'm concerned, it is valid until such validity is officially withdrawn. Just take the map with you just in case.

With these rovers/rangers, does one TOC actually "make the rules" (i.e. decide on the map area), because they are valid on all TOCs in the area they cover (unlike things like LM's Great Escape or EMT's Red Dot Day, where they are valid only on the TOC concerned) (because one TOC, in this case Northern Rail, seems to "promote" them). (And I think it is possible for them to include routes/stations not served by the TOC who "promotes" the rover/ranger).

 

[island]

I believe most of them are determined by passenger transport executives.

 

[142094]

PTEs promote their own product, so produce the maps and other documents to go with them. For example you'll not find information about West Yorkshire Day Rovers on Northern's website. The info is on the Metro (WYPTE) website.

For products such as a Northern Tyne and Tees Day Ranger, along with any other ranger or rover that Northern have created, everything is organised by Northern, including maps and leaflets etc. On the Tyne and Tees Day Ranger, this is also valid on EC, XC and TPE on certain routes, but they are not mentioned on any of their websites.

 

[John @ home]

Isn't there a rule somewhere that says something like "for very long-distance journeys the † symbol may not be printed on a ticket requiring a cross-London transfer, but it's valid anyway"?

Yes, there is.

The via London, Maltese Cross symbol on a ticket signifies that the ticket may be used via London Underground or Thameslink services. Unless a ticket specifies that the journey must be made via London, passengers are free to use an alternative ‘permitted route’ for their journey as provided by the Routeing Guide.

In some instances (particularly long distance cross country journeys) the Manual will show an "any permitted" fare but without the via London, Maltese cross symbol. Reference to Section C (the “yellow pages”) may show via London to be a permitted route for this journey and in such instances travel via London to include cross-London transfer would be permitted.

http://www.atoc.org/clientfiles/File/RSPDocuments/instructions.pdf

 

[Deerfold]

PTEs promote their own product, so produce the maps and other documents to go with them. For example you'll not find information about West Yorkshire Day Rovers on Northern's website. The info is on the Metro (WYPTE) website.

For products such as a Northern Tyne and Tees Day Ranger, along with any other ranger or rover that Northern have created, everything is organised by Northern, including maps and leaflets etc. On the Tyne and Tees Day Ranger, this is also valid on EC, XC and TPE on certain routes, but they are not mentioned on any of their websites.

Odd that Northern do promote the GMPTE evening fares offer - http://www.northernrail.org/offers/Cheap+Evening+Return+(Greater+Manchester+area)

Or is this just a Northern offer than happens to use the GMPTE boundaries?

 

[Chapeltom]

GMPTE offer. Funny the Northern downloaded map of it still shows the Oldham Loop on it...

 

[northwichcat]

Cheap Evening return extends beyond the GMPTE boundaries - Knutsford and New Mills are included.

 

[323235]

and Congleton.....

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Cheap Evening Returns are available to go to stations within the GMPTE area from the following stations outside the GMPTE area.

Southport, Meols Cop, Bescar Lane, New Lane, Burscough Bridge, Hoscar, Parbold, Chorley, Adlington (Lancs), Chinley, New Mills Central, Buxton, Doves Hill, Chapel-en-le-Frith, Whalley Bridge, Furness Vale, New Mills Newtown, Disley, Congleton, Macclesfield, Prestbury, Adlington (Cheshire), Poynton, Chelford, Alderley Edge, Wilmslow, Handforth, Styal, Plumley, Knutsford, Mobberley, Ashley, Birchwood, Earlestown and Newton-le-Willows.