Checking previous portion of split ticket?

[edwin_m]

I was travelling Nottingham to St Pancras this morning with a split at Market Harborough. Soon after that station my ticket was checked and I was asked whether I'd travelled from further north. On saying yes I was asked for the previous portion. Unfortunately I had deleted it out of the phone wallet to make it slightly less likely I'd try to use it in error, and I couldn't see it in the long list of "removed passes" (it may have been somewhere but the list didn't appear to be in any logical sequence). Luckily however, I had enough connectivity (pretty unusual on a 222) to download it from the confirmation email.

Are ticket inspectors entitled to ask for expired portions of splits? I'll have to remember in future not to delete them until the entire journey is complete.

 

[redreni]

I was travelling Nottingham to St Pancras this morning with a split at Market Harborough. Soon after that station my ticket was checked and I was asked whether I'd travelled from further north. On saying yes I was asked for the previous portion. Unfortunately I had deleted it out of the phone wallet to make it slightly less likely I'd try to use it in error, and I couldn't see it in the long list of "removed passes" (it may have been somewhere but the list didn't appear to be in any logical sequence). Luckily however, I had enough connectivity (pretty unusual on a 222) to download it from the confirmation email.

Are ticket inspectors entitled to ask for expired portions of splits? I'll have to remember in future not to delete them until the entire journey is complete.

Interesting question. I don't know the answer.

I definitely wouldn't be deleting any tickets until I had arrived at my final destination, if only on the basis I might need them for a delay repay claim.

If you're using two or more tickets for a continuous journey on one train then I would say that's pretty obviously one journey.

 

[Kite159]

No harm in showing both parts of a ticket if checked, especially if claiming for delay repay as that is good proof you were on that particular train. Or when the split is at a lightly used station where the numbers actually boarding on some trains are minimal.

 

[fandroid]

I wouldn't have thought that they have a right to demand it. That's not to say that they might think they do have that right and can accuse you of a non-existent offence. It's best to hang on to those already used splits, as there seems to be a lot of paranoia around about passengers trying to rip off the railway. (Partly justified, but not to the extent of treating all passengers as suspects).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Given that there is so much short faring I would see this as completely reasonable to request if for instance there's a missing entry scan somewhere they know a block was going on to catch short farers. It is seriously ill advised to discard any tickets (whether paper or e-ticket) used for a journey until the whole journey has been completed and you have exited the station (or at least passed the gateline) at the destination.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Oct 2025 ==

I wouldn't have thought that they have a right to demand it.

If using multiple tickets to complete one journey they absolutely do.

 

[JonathanH]

It isnt uncommon for a ticket inspector to ask to see a previous ticket if the subsequent ticket hasn't been scanned on entry to a gated station, as a means of identifying if there is a 'gap' in the split tickets (eg if someone is "doughnutting").

 

[Adam Williams]

if for instance there's a missing entry scan somewhere

You cannot conclude anything from the absence of an entry scan (and particularly so on the day of travel).

 

[Bletchleyite]

You cannot conclude anything from the absence of an entry scan (and particularly so on the day of travel).

You can if there's a block going on so you know everyone would be scanned from that particular origin. You can't in normal circumstances, I'd agree, but doing blocks at known short-faring origins is a common practice and it is done such that nobody could evade either a scan or getting a piece of paper to confirm they actually boarded there or a marking on a paper ticket if that is what was held.

 

[Adam Williams]

You can if there's a block going on so you know everyone would be scanned from that particular origin

You could if the various industry players responsible for e.g. gate-lines were competent, but there is no guarantee that scans are distributed in any sort of timely manner.

It's a bit of a joke if you ask me, but there are various standards that set this out.

 

[edwin_m]

Thanks for the replies.

I scanned the first portion, bought on the same transaction, on the gateline at Nottingham so I did have evidence of travel. But I doubt the system is clever enough to highlight that when someone scans the second portion.

 

[Kite159]

Thanks for the replies.

I scanned the first portion, bought on the same transaction, on the gateline at Nottingham so I did have evidence of travel. But I doubt the system is clever enough to highlight that when someone scans the second portion.

Although with the case of Market Harborough it doesn't have barriers* so even if you did start your journey there, the ticket wouldn't have been scanned (unless they were doing a revenue block at both entrances)

(* Unless it's gained barriers since the summer)

 

[AlterEgo]

Entirely reasonable to ask for all the tickets being used to make a journey.

 

[transportphoto]

Are ticket inspectors entitled to ask for expired portions of splits? I'll have to remember in future not to delete them until the entire journey is complete.

Yes. They are. You’ve a responsibility to be able to produce a valid ticket for your full journey and you commit a criminal offence if you fail to do so.

I wouldn't have thought that they have a right to demand it.

I reference Section 5(1) Regulation of the Railways Act 1889:

Every passenger by a railway shall, on request by an officer or servant of a railway company, either produce, and if so requested deliver up, a ticket showing that his fare is paid, or pay his fare from the place whence he started, or give the officer or servant his name and address; and in case of default shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 2 on the standard scale.

I feel that the quotation of “from the place whence he started” provides the indisputable answer to the question posed.

 

[redreni]

Yes. They are. You’ve a responsibility to be able to produce a valid ticket for your full journey and you commit a criminal offence if you fail to do so.



I reference Section 5(1) Regulation of the Railways Act 1889:



I feel that the quotation of “from the place whence he started” provides the indisputable answer to the question posed.

That's a bit of a leap, since that phrase applies to the case where the person doesn't have a ticket but pays his fare on request of an officer or servant of a railway company.

For me, if RORA has any relevance here at all, it would lie in the fact that if you're showing a ticket, the ticket has to show that your fare is paid.

Once the guard had established, by asking the OP, that the OP had started at a point prior to the origin of the ticket that he had showed to the guard, then in my view the guard has every right to ask for the other ticket. Because the ticket the OP was using at the time did not demonstrate that his fare was paid for the journey he was making.

I normally only show staff the ticket that I am using at the time (unless it is one that can only be valid in conjunction with another, such as if I'm making a non-stop split, or any split involving a boundary zone ticket). But I definitely have the other tickets available for inspection in case a member of staff asks the very question the OP was asked - I certainly wouldn't want to lie or answer "no comment" in that situation.