Cheadle Hulme to London Terminals query

[CHAPS2034]

Good morning

Relatively new here although I have been lurking for some time and I have a ticketing query.

I travel from Cheadle Hume to London about half a dozen times a year and more often than not buy a walk-up off-peak ticket (with a senior railcard) as I like to keep my plans flexible. This of course nowadays means using a VTWC off-peak service whereas a few years ago you could use the above ticket on any service (and also with a student railcard if I remember correctly).

I am planning another trip in the next couple of weeks and as I'm not in a hurry this time, I would like to know if the Cheadle Hulme to London Terminals ticket is also valid for me to travel via Birmingham and onto Chiltern into Marylebone? I have put this itinerary into National Rail enquiries as routing via Leamington and it comes up with the same price, so I am assuming it is valid on this route as well as VTWC. Using the expertise of all those on this forum, am I correct please?

I'm afraid I haven't learnt the subtleties of using the routing guide yet - I seem to get a headache when I start to try and figure it out and my eyes soon glaze over. The only solution then is to go to the pub...

Any guidance would be much appreciated.

Thank you
CW

 

[JB_B]

Assuming it's the £57.05 ticket - route : Any Permitted ( I think it must be) then yes, you can do


Leamington then into Marylebone on Chiltern or into Paddington via Reading.

Over to Sheffield via Stockport and down the MML to St Pancras.

WCML via Rugby to Euston

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Don't forget you can use the Northern service to Stoke and change there into the LNWR service to Euston.
Some good fares if you split at Stoke.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Good morning

Relatively new here although I have been lurking for some time and I have a ticketing query.

I travel from Cheadle Hume to London about half a dozen times a year and more often than not buy a walk-up off-peak ticket (with a senior railcard) as I like to keep my plans flexible. This of course nowadays means using a VTWC off-peak service whereas a few years ago you could use the above ticket on any service (and also with a student railcard if I remember correctly).

I am planning another trip in the next couple of weeks and as I'm not in a hurry this time, I would like to know if the Cheadle Hulme to London Terminals ticket is also valid for me to travel via Birmingham and onto Chiltern into Marylebone? I have put this itinerary into National Rail enquiries as routing via Leamington and it comes up with the same price, so I am assuming it is valid on this route as well as VTWC. Using the expertise of all those on this forum, am I correct please?

I'm afraid I haven't learnt the subtleties of using the routing guide yet - I seem to get a headache when I start to try and figure it out and my eyes soon glaze over. The only solution then is to go to the pub...

Any guidance would be much appreciated.

Thank you
CW

Yes, if you are referring to the route 'ANY PERMITTED' ticket then you are permitted to do that.

To find out the permitted routes, it's perhaps a little simpler nowadays than in the past. But I acknowledge it's still a little complex. I've tried to break it down below.

Step 1: Use the Routeing Point Calculator to find out the appropriate routeing points for your ticket. Entering Cheadle Hulme to London Euston (doesn't really matter which London terminus you enter for these purposes) route 'ANY PERMITTED', it tells you that both are routeing points in themselves. Great.

Step 2: Use the Yellow Pages to find out which maps show the permitted routes. On Page 304, we see that the permitted routes' maps are BO+GC, EO, PR and RO+RG.

Step 3: Use the online Routeing Maps to find out what those maps mean (I've written out the meaning for the benefit of our visually impaired forum members):

1. BO+GC: Without doubling back to Stockport, go to Birmingham via Stoke-on-Trent or Crewe, then via Stafford and Wolverhampton or alternatively any of the Trent Valley stations (Rugeley, Lichfield, Tamworth). From Birmingham, take the Chiltern Main Line to Marylebone via High Wycombe (if you like, you can change onto the Chiltern at Leamington too).
2. EO: Again, without doubling back to Stockport, take the West Coast Main Line to Euston. You can do this the direct way (i.e. changing at Stoke-on-Trent or Crewe), or you can change onto a Euston-bound train at Stafford, Rugeley, Wolverhampton, Lichfield, Tamworth, Nuneaton... basically you can go to Euston any way you like on that map, as long as you don't go through a station more than once.
3. PR: Go to Sheffield via Stockport and Chinley - either direct from Stockport, or via Manchester then direct, or via Manchester and Guide Bridge. Then take the Midland Main Line to St Pancras International, going via either Derby or Nottingham (or both, or even via Melton Mowbray!).
4. RO+RG: Again, without doubling back to Stockport, take the Cross Country Line to Reading via Birmingham and Banbury. You can, again, swan around the West Midlands if you like, extending your route to Birmingham via Rugeley, Lichfield or Tamworth. Then from Reading take the Great Western Main Line direct to Paddington.

Step 4: Check the Routeing Guide Easements. The easiest way to find if there are any relevant easements is to search (using Control+F on a PC) for your origin and destination stations, and then potentially for any ones along the routes found in Step 3. The first relevant easement I've found is no. 700074, which permits doubling back between Cheadle Hulme and Stockport - so, even though the Routeing Maps do not permit doubling back on some of the routes, it seems you are always allowed to do this (which could save you significantly on the journey time). I've not been able to find any other relevant easements, but I think you get the gist.

So yes, you are perfectly entitled to go to Marylebone, or to Paddington, or to St Pancras on your ticket, though the Off-Peak restrictions are similarly strict in practice.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Don't forget you can use the Northern service to Stoke and change there into the LNWR service to Euston.
Some good fares if you split at Stoke.

There are some exceptional value tickets routed '✠SOUTHERN & WMT' from Stoke (and other WCML stations) to stations south of London too - to CLJ the ticket is only £1.90 more for a day return compared to the LNR-only Off-Peak, plus it includes two cross-London transfers, has less restrictive 'off-peak' times and actually permits break-of-journey on both legs.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

There is also an exceptional Travelcard fare from LNWR origins (Crewe, Stoke).
The Off Peak Return (WMT Only) with railcard is £26.75, which is good enough.
But the Day Travelcard version (Z1-6) is only £29.70.
I haven't found any Travelcard fare with such a low increment (£2.95) over the London fare.
Buy the same Travelcard separately at the station and it will cost £12.70.

 

[alistairlees]

Buy the same Travelcard separately at the station and it will cost £12.70.

£8.30 with a Senior Railcard, but still very good value as you say.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

There is also an exceptional Travelcard fare from LNWR origins (Crewe, Stoke).
The Off Peak Return (WMT Only) with railcard is £26.75, which is good enough.
But the Day Travelcard version (Z1-6) is only £29.70.
I haven't found any Travelcard fare with such a low increment (£2.95) over the London fare.
Buy the same Travelcard separately at the station and it will cost £12.70.

That's actually cheaper than the Southern + WMT ticket I talked about then, if you're purely going to CLJ (as that's in Zone 1-6). But, swings and roundabouts, it's more restrictive in terms of the off-peak times, and BoJ is officially not permitted (we all know what it's like in practice though).

 

[CHAPS2034]

Thanks to everyone who replied and to ForTheLoveOf for taking me through the steps to get the answer on the routing guide.

Yes it was the £57.05 fare I was talking about. I knew about some of these tickets and routes but didn't know about the ability to go via Nottingham or Reading, so an opportunity for some HST rides when I have the time to do it.

I've looked up the restriction on this ticket which is C2 but it doesn't say anything about break of journey. Am I allowed to break the journey in either direction - in particular changing trains from arrival at New St to getting on the Marylebone train from Moor St?

Thanks for any advice.
Cheers
CW

 

[button_boxer]

Thanks to everyone who replied and to ForTheLoveOf for taking me through the steps to get the answer on the routing guide.

Yes it was the £57.05 fare I was talking about. I knew about some of these tickets and routes but didn't know about the ability to go via Nottingham or Reading, so an opportunity for some HST rides when I have the time to do it.

I've looked up the restriction on this ticket which is C2 but it doesn't say anything about break of journey. Am I allowed to break the journey in either direction - in particular changing trains from arrival at New St to getting on the Marylebone train from Moor St?

Thanks for any advice.
Cheers
CW

Changing stations to catch a connection isn’t a “break of journey” in the railway sense anyway, but yes - if it doesn’t say you can’t break the journey then you can.

 

[CHAPS2034]

Changing stations to catch a connection isn’t a “break of journey” in the railway sense anyway, but yes - if it doesn’t say you can’t break the journey then you can.

Thanks very much for the clarification

Cheers
CW

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Thanks to everyone who replied and to ForTheLoveOf for taking me through the steps to get the answer on the routing guide.

Yes it was the £57.05 fare I was talking about. I knew about some of these tickets and routes but didn't know about the ability to go via Nottingham or Reading, so an opportunity for some HST rides when I have the time to do it.

I've looked up the restriction on this ticket which is C2 but it doesn't say anything about break of journey. Am I allowed to break the journey in either direction - in particular changing trains from arrival at New St to getting on the Marylebone train from Moor St?

Thanks for any advice.
Cheers
CW

You're welcome, I hope the explanation makes the process a little less mind-boggling it certainly was mind-boggling for me the first few times until I got the hang of it.

The 2C restriction code is very restrictive in terms of week-day morning southbound or evening northbound travel. But at least it doesn't ban break of journey. You can look up and check this for any restriction at www.nationalrail.co.uk/XX, where XX is the restriction code (like 2C). It's quick and easy to get to and to read

However, as others have advised, though there is unfortunately no longer a formal definition of what 'break of journey' means in the railway context (this having been removed with the change from the National Rail Conditions of Carriage to the Conditions of Travel in October 2016), the old definition made clear that the use of station facilities, changing trains or even changing stations like here is not a break of journey. So you don't need to worry about it

 

[CHAPS2034]

You're welcome, I hope the explanation makes the process a little less mind-boggling it certainly was mind-boggling for me the first few times until I got the hang of it.

The 2C restriction code is very restrictive in terms of week-day morning southbound or evening northbound travel. But at least it doesn't ban break of journey. You can look up and check this for any restriction at www.nationalrail.co.uk/XX, where XX is the restriction code (like 2C). It's quick and easy to get to and to read

However, as others have advised, though there is unfortunately no longer a formal definition of what 'break of journey' means in the railway context (this having been removed with the change from the National Rail Conditions of Carriage to the Conditions of Travel in October 2016), the old definition made clear that the use of station facilities, changing trains or even changing stations like here is not a break of journey. So you don't need to worry about it

Thanks for that

Cheers
CW

 

[button_boxer]

Generally speaking, break of journey is always allowed on Anytime tickets, and on the return half of Off-Peak and Super-Off-Peak Return tickets, and usually allowed on Off-Peak Singles and the outward half of Off-Peak Returns unless the restriction code specifically says otherwise.