Cheadle Hulme - Crewe

[CosherB]

Hi all

My first post here!

I live in Wilmslow, on the Manchester - Crewe line. A while ago, as you are no doubt aware, our line was closed for extended periods for upgrading of the track and signalling. When we got our railway back, it seems the new signalling system couldn't handle junctions, so the crossovers at Alderley Edge, and the Styal Line junction at Wilmslow, were not usable.

I heard a while ago that the line is to close again soon, so that an attempt can be made to remedy this. Does anyone know if that is so?

 

[Donny Dave]

First thing, welcome to the forums.

About the line from Crewe, I haven't heard of any more closures, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least....

 

[Guinness]

If I recall the signalling is not fully commissioned yet or something along those lines? That was the case a few months ago but given Network Rail standards with Signalling Projects (*cough* Portsmouth *cough*) I guess it still be at a Standstill.

More closures are due for Crewe line for Track Replacement for Handforth IIRC.

Now serves Wilmslow right for all the times I've had to go there while Macclesfield was closed......

 

[Tom]

Expect another one to go round the bend too... *cough*Basingstoke*cough*.

 

[CosherB]

Now serves Wilmslow right for all the times I've had to go there while Macclesfield was closed......

Not 'arf as often as we Wilmslowites had to trek to Macc while our line was closed for month after month after month....

And when we got it back, it didn't work properly.:?

 

[GeoffM]

given Network Rail standards with Signalling Projects (*cough* Portsmouth *cough*) I guess it still be at a Standstill.

Network Rail often have little to do with such things. New hardware, new signalling systems, the companies involved have to prove that they're safe to use - and that means meeting NR's high standards. Unfortunately more than one company has seriously underestimated the effort involved to get through SRP. Their systems might work fine in Italy, Germany, etc but those are different countries with different standards and different setups.

Geoff M.

 

[Karl Bough]

The Crewe to Manchester Line seems to have been the subject of a number of rail experiments - it was the first section of WCML to be switched on in September 1960, and now it is the first to be controlled by this new signalling software. Are there any plans to introduce this system elsewhere on the network?

Now that Sandbach and Wilmslow signalboxes have been decommissioned, are there any plans to eventually close the other boxes (like Macclesfield and Cheadle Hulme) and pass control to the Manchester South signalling centre?

 

[GeoffM]

I think this [Wilmslow] was the scheme that, when eventually re-opened, only had uni-directional working. The later closures were/are to instate the full bi-directional working. Don't quote me on that.

From what I've heard of Manchester South extending, all the experts I've spoken to (including one safety expert who worked on the project), it shouldn't be extended at all. But I guess it probably will.

Mind you, I never thought Portsmouth would get in-Siemen-ated either, after Bournemouth. But Basingstoke apparently went very well, apart from a slight hiccup with the original possession on the Reading fringe.

Geoff M.

 

[CosherB]

The Manchester - Wilmslow (via Styal) line was the prototype for BR 25KV electrification (inc. WCML), where OLE and stock were trialled, and intial crew training took place. Quite a historic piece of railway! These days there are not many trains that serve the entire line - most run between Manchester and the airport only. But it does give a good diversion route for Manchester - London trains if Stockport is blockaded.

 

[Karl Bough]

The line is also set to see much more Pendolino activity after December 2008, when an hourly Euston-Manchester via Wilmslow service is introduced. Although I doubt this would happen, this new service should run via the Styal Line (maybe even calling at Manchester Airport), as Stockport will still have the half-hourly services that run via Stoke (and from the Crewe-Wilmslow-Handforth by the current Northern services).

The Crewe-Manchester line does seem to have played second fiddle to the North Staffordshire/East Cheshire line since electrification - mainly because it is six miles shorter and serves the major population centre of the Potteries. Although there will be more direct London trains, are there any plans for trains to/from Birmingham from Wilmslow?

 

[CosherB]

It's unlikely Pendos would call at Manchester Airport as they'd have to reverse - and also the platforms may not be long enough.

I don't know why we have to wait almost 1.5 years before getting a decent London service via Wilmslow. Years ago Wilmslow was the premier route - Mancunian and later the electric-hauled Manchester Pullman went via Wilmslow - we had an excellent London service. It's awful these days.

Trent Valley 4-tracking doesn't seem relevant as both Stoke and Wilmslow trains have to use that section. I'd have thought the 2-line section south of Stafford (Shugborogh) might reduce paths, but even by Dec 2008 that will still be the same. What changes in December next year to allow more trains via Wilmslow?

We could do with a Birmingham service or two as well - TV4 not relevant to that either. Currently, all Birmingham services go via Stoke, which considering they turn off at Stafford and don't use the Shugborough section shouldn't cause pathing problems.

 

[Guinness]

What changes in December next year to allow more trains via Wilmslow?

Virgin are changing the timetable to allow for quicker journey times and also making turnarounds quicker. This will free up more sets and will then go via Wilmslow.

Manchester Airport can only hold 8 Cars IIRC.

 

[djw1981]

A timetable change in December 2008, following most of the WCML upgrade results in Virgin increasing their service frequency.

 

[Ascot]

I believe this is the old bit of trouble? MML HST from Manchester to St Pancras

http://web.archive.org/web/20050123...western.co.uk/engineering/westcoast_flyer.pdf

 

[Karl Bough]

Looking at the current southbound VT7 timetable, the last southbound service of the day goes via Wilmslow, Crewe and then Stoke-on-Trent (no Stafford stop, so presumably via the direct Stone-Colwich line) and then most of the other intercity stops to London. Any reason for this unusual route?

Also, as it must have used the Crewe-Alsager-Kidsgrove line, I think that the single track section on this line should be doubled. I had imagined that Network Rail would have taken the opportunity to have done that when they electrified the line in 2003. It will be used by the new London Midland services from Crewe-London from November, as well as the Crewe-Derby trains, so the single-track section may well become a capacity constraint in the future.

 

[Guinness]

Looking at the current southbound VT7 timetable, the last southbound service of the day goes via Wilmslow, Crewe and then Stoke-on-Trent (no Stafford stop, so presumably via the direct Stone-Colwich line) and then most of the other intercity stops to London. Any reason for this unusual route?

Late night service for the all Stopper Service. Goes via Alsager for Driver Training Knowledge.

Also, as it must have used the Crewe-Alsager-Kidsgrove line, I think that the single track section on this line should be doubled. I had imagined that Network Rail would have taken the opportunity to have done that when they electrified the line in 2003. It will be used by the new London Midland services from Crewe-London from November, as well as the Crewe-Derby trains, so the single-track section may well become a capacity constraint in the future.

Network Rail have laid out plans to double it. I'll root around on my C Drive and see if I can find the PDF.

 

[Ascot]

Late night service for the all Stopper Service. Goes via Alsager for Driver Training Knowledge.

Also, as it must have used the Crewe-Alsager-Kidsgrove line, I think that the single track section on this line should be doubled. I had imagined that Network Rail would have taken the opportunity to have done that when they electrified the line in 2003. It will be used by the new London Midland services from Crewe-London from November, as well as the Crewe-Derby trains, so the single-track section may well become a capacity constraint in the future.[/quote]

Network Rail have laid out plans to double it. I'll root around on my C Drive and see if I can find the PDF.[/QUOTE]

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse documents/BusinessPlan2007/PDF/Route 18 WCML.pdf

Page 4 on that has the track and whats single and whats double plus with footnotes down the pages.

 

[Guinness]

Late night service for the all Stopper Service. Goes via Alsager for Driver Training Knowledge.

Also, as it must have used the Crewe-Alsager-Kidsgrove line, I think that the single track section on this line should be doubled. I had imagined that Network Rail would have taken the opportunity to have done that when they electrified the line in 2003. It will be used by the new London Midland services from Crewe-London from November, as well as the Crewe-Derby trains, so the single-track section may well become a capacity constraint in the future.

Network Rail have laid out plans to double it. I'll root around on my C Drive and see if I can find the PDF.

 

[Guinness]

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse documents/BusinessPlan2007/PDF/Route 18 WCML.pdf

Page 4 on that has the track and whats single and whats double plus with footnotes down the pages.

Further into the document it also says that the doubling is planned for 2012 along with the Colwich Junction re-alignment.

 

[Karl Bough]

Further into the document it also says that the doubling is planned for 2012 along with the Colwich Junction re-alignment.

Does this imply grade-separation?

 

[323235]

The Crewe to Manchester Line seems to have been the subject of a number of rail experiments - it was the first section of WCML to be switched on in September 1960, and now it is the first to be controlled by this new signalling software. Are there any plans to introduce this system elsewhere on the network?

Now that Sandbach and Wilmslow signalboxes have been decommissioned, are there any plans to eventually close the other boxes (like Macclesfield and Cheadle Hulme) and pass control to the Manchester South signalling centre?

Cheadle hulme signal box closed several years ago and was demolished. Macclesfield I belive was to be closed but was shelved due to the west coast project going over budget.It has now been refurbished and since manchester south and north staffs were commisioned serves a far reduced radius,little more than the station and a few miles either side