Chasing the Waverley steam special - questions

[victrainspot]

Sorry if this is in the wrong section or anything, im quite new here

Hi all,


While I'm on holiday in the UK, I'm planning to chase The Waverley steam special on the Settle & Carlisle northbound and have a few questions for those with experience of the line:

1. After cresting Ais Gill summit, how fast does a steam special typically run on the descent toward Kirkby Stephen and Appleby? Does it reach the 60mph line speed or run slower in practice?
2. Is it possible to leapfrog Ais Gill and get another shot further north, or does the train outrun road times on that descent?
3. How long is the water stop at Appleby typically for a steam special, or more specifically the Waverley?
4. Any general advice for chasing that train on the S&C would be greatly appreciated! Is it even really possible? (sorry if these questions are a bit obvious, im not from the UK so not too familiar with the railways there)

 

[Harpo]

Don’t bother today (Sun 19/7) as it’s diesels only.

 

[victrainspot]

Not for today, sorry shouldve specified. (Lazonby is the northbound water stop, not Appleby*)

 

[cats_five]

The roads are tiny over the summit and slow, especially with summer traffic and people chasing steam engines around. Also there is currently a moratorium on all mainline steam in England because of the very dry land.

 

[victrainspot]

Would probably be late august early september, so hopefully these heatwave bans arent still in effect

 

[Acathater]

The roads around there are slow, winding, narrow, in places steep - and in my view dangerous. Also much less direct than the railway.
In my view any attempt at trying to chase a train along there is irresponsible

 

[Egg Centric]

Possible if you hire a motorbike. No chance in a car, you'll get stuck behind stuff.

Wouldn't recommend it though. I don't know a lot about photography but I thought you would want to spend a few minutes at each location setting up the shot and that wouldn't be doable either.

Also be aware even in summer it can get misty for no real reason. So don't rely on a single day for photography.

 

[AlterEgo]

It isn't the railways you need to know about. It's the roads. They are small, winding, and narrow and you can easily be stuck behind farm vehicles or tourist drivers which preclude chasing a train.

The roads are deceptively dangerous, and especially so for a foreigner.

 

[HertiageFan]

Sorry if this is in the wrong section or anything, im quite new here

Hi all,


While I'm on holiday in the UK, I'm planning to chase The Waverley steam special on the Settle & Carlisle northbound and have a few questions for those with experience of the line:

1. After cresting Ais Gill summit, how fast does a steam special typically run on the descent toward Kirkby Stephen and Appleby? Does it reach the 60mph line speed or run slower in practice?
2. Is it possible to leapfrog Ais Gill and get another shot further north, or does the train outrun road times on that descent?
3. How long is the water stop at Appleby typically for a steam special, or more specifically the Waverley?
4. Any general advice for chasing that train on the S&C would be greatly appreciated! Is it even really possible? (sorry if these questions are a bit obvious, im not from the UK so not too familiar with the railways there)

Today’s trip is hauled by 47812 and 47813 top and tailed

 

[Iskra]

For someone not familiar with the geography, roads and weather in the area: I wouldn't bother 'chasing' it in a car.

Instead, do it on the train. Head to Dent for it Northbound, and Ribblehead Southbound. Ensure you have waterproofs and warm clothing though and be aware of the timetable as it isn't that frequent and this is a remote (but beautiful) part of the country. There is a waiting shelter at Dent and a decent pub at Ribblehead. If you have a flexible ticket and the timings are fortunate; in addition to the above you may be able to catch it diesel-hauled further South, and then leap-frog the tour to catch it again with steam. They don't always actually utilise the full water stop at Appleby I don't think. Sometimes you can catch the steam loco arriving at Hellifield if it swaps there, then the tour arriving diesel-hauled and then you can take a Northern train up to Dent and be in position for the steam-hauled tour depending on timings.

 

[70014IronDuke]

1. After cresting Ais Gill summit, how fast does a steam special typically run on the descent toward Kirkby Stephen and Appleby? Does it reach the 60mph line speed or run slower in practice?

I have no running experience with steam over the S&C, but I would imagine that once 'over the top' it is very easy for the train to reach 60 mph on the downhill sections. At the northern end, even a compound 4-4-0 could average 60 mph start to stop from Appleby to Carlisle on an express. (this was when the line speed was 90 mph).

1. Is it possible to leapfrog Ais Gill and get another shot further north, or does the train outrun road times on that descent?
2. How long is the water stop at Appleby typically for a steam special, or more specifically the Waverley?
3. Any general advice for chasing that train on the S&C would be greatly appreciated! Is it even really possible? (sorry if these questions are a bit obvious, im not from the UK so not too familiar with the railways there)

As others have said, there are no roads 'equivalent' to the line (ie reasonably fast) over the top. Anyone who advised chasing the train by road would be irresponsible. It is simply dangerous and life threatening.

I would advise (in contrast to @Iskra) photographing any northbound train between Settle and Blea Moor Box and any southbound train between Appleby and Garsdale. This will mean the locomotive will almost certainly be working hard. (Of course, it depends on what kind of pic you want.)

Once on the tableland between Blea Moor Tunnel and Ais Gill, the train is likely to amble along if on time at 50 mph. Some years back I naively went to photograph Scots Guardsman at the northern end of Blea Moor Tunnel and it was very disappointing.

I certainly agree with @Iskra regarding clothing, however. The weather can change within minutes, and it is very wild between Horton-in-Ribblesdale and Kirkby Stephen.

 

[norbitonflyer]

This is the road at Aisgill

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(ignore the side panel)

Trying to outpace a train is probably out of the question.

 

[SECR 65]

I assume you have the schedule for the train. But in case not, and for the sake of anyone else viewing this thread, here is today's working. 1Z40 and 1Z41.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U87731/2026-07-19/detailed

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U87735/2026-07-19/detailed

 

[victrainspot]

The roads around there are slow, winding, narrow, in places steep - and in my view dangerous. Also much less direct than the railway.
In my view any attempt at trying to chase a train along there is irresponsible

What about like between Skipton and Aisgill? Or even Ribblehead? Would this plan possibly work? (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/53....try=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI2MDcxNS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw==)

 

[Egg Centric]

What about like between Skipton and Aisgill? Or even Ribblehead? Would this plan possibly work? (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/53.95845076837663,+-2.048629588567369/54.013811912473024,+-2.244152364515897/54.125248537390064,+-2.292727495698166/54.19613820111656,+-2.341376529552729/@54.1470183,-2.3809487,35284m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m18!4m17!1m3!2m2!1d-2.0486296!2d53.9584508!1m3!2m2!1d-2.2441524!2d54.0138119!1m3!2m2!1d-2.2927275!2d54.1252485!1m3!2m2!1d-2.3413765!2d54.1961382!3e0?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI2MDcxNS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw==)

On the timings given by @SECR 65 for the first service with the big gap in Hellfield, your first two stops are very much doable (but only because of that big gap).

There is zero chance of subsequently doing both of the second two on the same journey.

If you picked one or the second two... put it this way - I see your location is Australia - are you are a Northern Territories driver or a Victoria driver? If the latter forget it. If the former then I will venture that it is possible. But you will need a high performance vehicle and ideally a bike. And if you want to combine riding bikes at high speed down winding country lanes with photographing trains then Heysham is only an hour away from Hellifield, take a ferry to the Isle of Man, and there you've a haven for both with a lot more tolerance of the former activity than Cumbria!

 

[victrainspot]

On the timings given by @SECR 65 for the first service with the big gap in Hellfield, your first two stops are very much doable (but only because of that big gap).

There is zero chance of subsequently doing both of the second two on the same journey.

If you picked one or the second two... put it this way - I see your location is Australia - are you are a Northern Territories driver or a Victoria driver? If the latter forget it. If the former then I will venture that it is possible. But you will need a high performance vehicle and ideally a bike. And if you want to combine riding bikes at high speed down winding country lanes with photographing trains then Heysham is only an hour away from Hellifield, take a ferry to the Isle of Man, and there you've a haven for both with a lot more tolerance of the former activity than Cumbria!

Thank you for your response! I am a driver from Victoria, but I will most likely not be driving on that occasion. I am not looking to put my own life in danger, so I will just do the first 2 shots. Do you have any tips whatsoever to that could give me more shots, or better shots?

 

[Acathater]

What about like between Skipton and Aisgill? Or even Ribblehead? Would this plan possibly work? (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/53.95845076837663,+-2.048629588567369/54.013811912473024,+-2.244152364515897/54.125248537390064,+-2.292727495698166/54.19613820111656,+-2.341376529552729/@54.1470183,-2.3809487,35284m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m18!4m17!1m3!2m2!1d-2.0486296!2d53.9584508!1m3!2m2!1d-2.2441524!2d54.0138119!1m3!2m2!1d-2.2927275!2d54.1252485!1m3!2m2!1d-2.3413765!2d54.1961382!3e0?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI2MDcxNS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw==)

Depends on traffic. The A65 is a designated trunk route but for most of it single carriageway. Full of trucks and tourists with few places to overtake. On a good day you might make that first section, but probably not. Once you're off the A65 not a chance

 

[victrainspot]

Depends on traffic. The A65 is a designated trunk route but for most of it single carriageway. Full of trucks and tourists with few places to overtake. On a good day you might make that first section, but probably not. Once you're off the A65 not a chance

So getting more than 1 shot is impossible?

 

[30907]

So getting more than 1 shot is impossible?

I find Googlemaps timings reasonable for the area and time of day, but weekend traffic can be very variable, there are currently works at Coniston Cold bridge and sadly the routes are prone to accidents

If you fancy checking at relevant UK times it might give you an idea.

 

[Spamcan81]

So getting more than 1 shot is impossible?

Go for one either side of a water stop, that should be doable. Last time I chased steam northbound on the S&C, I did shot one at Selside and shot two just after Appleby. Other places are available but those two worked for me. To try and fit in more, you need the skills of a rally driver and a car to match.

 

[Egg Centric]

So getting more than 1 shot is impossible?

On the timings given you'll easily manage the first two because there was what I assume was a water stop. I don't know whether this service always does that there though (it obviously needs water stops though and it seems a sensible place to do it if there are facilities).

Edit: you could also cut out stop 2 and make it from stop 1 to either stop 3 or stop 4 - again assuming the water stop.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Bear in mind also that all the best photographic vantage points, and parking places, will already be occupied by people who have been there for hours, having decided not to try to photograph it from more than one place. So not only will you have to allow time to get to your photo location from wherever it is still possible to park, but you will be standing behind lots of other people who got there before you.

 

[matt]

Good advice is go for quality over quantity. 1 good photo will be better than 2 mediocre ones. As others have said on the Settle and Carlisle line you are realistically only going to get one photo in each direction.

 

[Harvester]

Today’s trip is hauled by 47812 and 47813 top and tailed

It will be diesels until further notice. Network Rail has announced a temporary steam ban, because of the risk of lineside fires.

 

[victrainspot]

On the timings given you'll easily manage the first two because there was what I assume was a water stop. I don't know whether this service always does that there though (it obviously needs water stops though and it seems a sensible place to do it if there are facilities).

Edit: you could also cut out stop 2 and make it from stop 1 to either stop 3 or stop 4 - again assuming the water stop.

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Reworked plan for the down, accounting for the 30-45 minute water stop in Hellifield
Would that plan, reversed also work the for the up accounting for the timetable?

 

[Acathater]

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Reworked plan for the down, accounting for the 30-45 minute water stop in Hellifield
Would that plan, reversed also work the for the up accounting for the timetable?

At the moment Google is showing a 20 minute transit time for those 11 miles on the A65 - and it's 10.30 at night. Just shows how slow it can be

 

[Egg Centric]

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Reworked plan for the down, accounting for the 30-45 minute water stop in Hellifield
Would that plan, reversed also work the for the up accounting for the timetable?

So long as there's the water stop then yes no problem at all. For all the difficulties with the roads they're not dirt tracks either!

What I can't speak to, not being a photographer is the jockeying for position @norbitonflyer was talking about.

One thing to be aware of which I'm not sure if it's the law in Oz or not - it's illegal to park anywhere with double white lines in the centre of the road as in your second location. So even here which looks ok to park at isn't.

 

[victrainspot]

So long as there's the water stop then yes no problem at all. For all the difficulties with the roads they're not dirt tracks either!

What I can't speak to, not being a photographer is the jockeying for position @norbitonflyer was talking about.

One thing to be aware of which I'm not sure if it's the law in Oz or not - it's illegal to park anywhere with double white lines in the centre of the road as in your second location. So even here which looks ok to park at isn't.

Looking at that yeah uh... really doesnt look like you can park there without obstructing traffic. Definitely illegal here in Oz.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Jul 2026 ==

Thank everyone for your responses, I didnt know the chasing culture here was different to in Oz, so thats probably why i was a bit ambitious. Again, thank you!

 

[norbitonflyer]

One thing to be aware of which I'm not sure if it's the law in Oz or not - it's illegal to park anywhere with double white lines in the centre of the road as in your second location. So even here which looks ok to park at isn't.

You certainly shouldn't be parking on that bridge, but there is a layby/field entrance shown on Google Street view a few yards to the north big enough for one or two cars to park. First come first served of course

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