Chase Line electrification

[sufian123]

they could bung on 4 car 350's vice 323's. then use 323's in rugeleys

can x-city take 8 car 350's?

No they can’t. 350s cant keep demands on the cross city. That’s why they used on local Walsall-Wolves to free up 323s on weekdays.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

No, no chance. Plus you'd be stuck using single 350s all around, which would be a major capacity downgrade during the peaks - all the CrossCity stations are geared up for 6 coach 323s, so there's not enough length for double 350s.

It's frustrating that there's still diesel under the wires running happening, but it should be fixed in, what in railway terms, is a relatively short time.

 

[Elecman]

Temporary hire of a few class 319s?

 

[td97]

What has WMT got to do with it?
They also won't have enough EMUs to run both the Rugeley - Euston and the local Walsall trains all day until TPE hand over the extra 350s which are needed.

The electric service was meant to start last May (2018) if the infrastructure was delivered on time, without the need for TPE 350s. There should have been (and still should be) enough slack in the fleet for this to happen.

 

[sufian123]

Temporary hire of a few class 319s?

319s not cleared beyond Northampton. LNwR don’t want to get it extended because it breaks down easily. Closer to home is better they say.

 

[Kite159]

319s not cleared beyond Northampton. LNwR don’t want to get it extended because it breaks down easily. Closer to home is better they say.

Or maybe hire in some additional 319s to work more Tring/Milton Keynes stoppers, releasing 350s to work the Walsall - Wolverhampton stoppers & the Chase line services.

 

[sufian123]

Or maybe hire in some additional 319s to work more Tring/Milton Keynes stoppers, releasing 350s to work the Walsall - Wolverhampton stoppers & the Chase line services.

350s do work Walsall-wolves weekdays only. Your right they could do Euston local using 319 more.

 

[Kite159]

350s do work Walsall-wolves weekdays only. Your right they could do Euston local using 319 more.

Although the big drawback is 319s not being allowed to operate in 12 coach formations in public service?

 

[sufian123]

Although the big drawback is 319s not being allowed to operate in 12 coach formations in public service?

Not sure regarding this. Problem is breaking down quickly.

 

[londonmidland]

No. 350s can't keep up with the demanding Cross City schedule - only 323s have the high rate of acceleration required.

I thought 350s had fairly rapid acceleration? Can they not keep up with 323 timings then?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I thought 350s had fairly rapid acceleration? Can they not keep up with 323 timings then?

Rapid for high speed work, but (from having commuted on both for over 5 years) nowhere near as good as the acceleration of a 323 when at low speeds.

 

[BHXDMT]

I thought 350s had fairly rapid acceleration? Can they not keep up with 323 timings then?

Nope. When I was a Guard down there, working a 350 on a Wolves-Walsall stopper it was a pain trying to keep to time, you'd never recover any if you were late. On a 323 however you could, and would frequently have standing time at stations.

 

[sufian123]

Nope. When I was a Guard down there, working a 350 on a Wolves-Walsall stopper it was a pain trying to keep to time, you'd never recover any if you were late. On a 323 however you could, and would frequently have standing time at stations.

If that’s the case I wonder how 350s play with the new extensions to Rugeley. This be interesting.

 

[craigybagel]

If that’s the case I wonder how 350s play with the new extensions to Rugeley. This be interesting.

A lot better then the 170s thereth replacing, which is all that matters!

It's not just the acceleration that's the issue with 350s, the doors can be painfully slow to open and close too, which has caused issues when South West Trains put their similar 450 onto all stops local work, and the units struggled to keep to the times set by 455s , despite their generally impressive acceleration.

 

[BHXDMT]

A lot better then the 170s thereth replacing, which is all that matters!

It's not just the acceleration that's the issue with 350s, the doors can be painfully slow to open and close too, which has caused issues when South West Trains put their similar 450 onto all stops local work, and the units struggled to keep to the times set by 455s , despite their generally impressive acceleration.

Pretty much spot on. They'll do far better than the 170s which have terribly slow acceleration. And yeah, that is the thing with 350 v 323, everything just takes longer.

 

[sufian123]

A lot better then the 170s thereth replacing, which is all that matters!

It's not just the acceleration that's the issue with 350s, the doors can be painfully slow to open and close too, which has caused issues when South West Trains put their similar 450 onto all stops local work, and the units struggled to keep to the times set by 455s , despite their generally impressive acceleration.

Ah makes sense now to me.

 

[Kite159]

Rapid for high speed work, but (from having commuted on both for over 5 years) nowhere near as good as the acceleration of a 323 when at low speeds.

Not just acceleration but the doors seem to take longer to open/close on a 350 compared to a 323

 

[causton]

Although the big drawback is 319s not being allowed to operate in 12 coach formations in public service?

12-car 319s are being planned for May 2019 timetable. Whether three working 319s are available at the same time remains to be seen

 

[Ken H]

A lot better then the 170s thereth replacing, which is all that matters!

It's not just the acceleration that's the issue with 350s, the doors can be painfully slow to open and close too, which has caused issues when South West Trains put their similar 450 onto all stops local work, and the units struggled to keep to the times set by 455s , despite their generally impressive acceleration.

so why doesnt someone fix the doors?

 

[31160]

So are there any planned EMU services planned at all before the new timetable

 

[thecrofter]

So are there any planned EMU services planned at all before the new timetable

Would seem to be an almighty risk to start a new service on the day of the TT change without having done trials beforehand.

 

[DavidGrain]

I did look at RTT for today to see if there were any ECS workings which could have been familiarisation runs for train crews and notice that Birmingham-Rugeley services are operated by TOC LM but the return workings are by TOC ZZ. I can understand LM still being shown (although it is over a year since the change of franchise) but not the change to ZZ.

Edit. Have seen that the heading for each train says West Midlands Trains and Unknown service

 

[TheScud]

The electric service was meant to start last May (2018) if the infrastructure was delivered on time, without the need for TPE 350s. There should have been (and still should be) enough slack in the fleet for this to happen.

Don't forget come May units will split and join so the majority of New St Euston diagrams will be 8 car. My concern is those Walsall locals in the AM peak being formed of 170s. Unless they're all going to be 2x 2 cars nobody beyond Tame Bridge will get on.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

so why doesnt someone fix the doors?

Doors are such an integral part of the train that I'd be surprised if there is any leeway at all to 'fix' them, without completely rebuilding or redesigning the systems. With current lease prices, it's probably cheaper just to lease a new train, as wasteful as that is (especially in view of the punitive mileage charges on the 350/2s)

I did look at RTT for today to see if there were any ECS workings which could have been familiarisation runs for train crews and notice that Birmingham-Rugeley services are operated by TOC LM but the return workings are by TOC ZZ. I can understand LM still being shown (although it is over a year since the change of franchise) but not the change to ZZ.

Edit. Have seen that the heading for each train says West Midlands Trains and Unknown service

LM is the two-letter TOC code. These are often years out of date. LNER still uses GR, which comes from GNER - so it's seen NXEC, EC and VTEC come and go, and it's still 'going strong'!

 

[31160]

Would seem to be an almighty risk to start a new service on the day of the TT change without having done trials beforehand.

Well I'm up in the area for the SVR gala, which is the week before the TT change I was wanting a EMU sample ride

 

[DavidGrain]

Well I'm up in the area for the SVR gala, which is the week before the TT change I was wanting a EMU sample ride

Are you asking for advice on a suitable EMU trip? If so you will need to give us some info on your travel plans as Kidderminster is on a DMU only line

 

[31160]

Are you asking for advice on a suitable EMU trip? If so you will need to give us some info on your travel plans as Kidderminster is on a DMU only line

Yep I know that, I was just asking of any probable EMU turns from Walsall up to Rugeley during the day

 

[DavidGrain]

Yep I know that, I was just asking of any probable EMU turns from Walsall up to Rugeley during the day

The Rugeley trains go west out of New Street and take the Soho Loop to Walsall whereas the Walsall trains go east and take the Aston route to Walsall. This is just for information but if you are heading for Walsall this will not affect you. So many diagrams have to be changed when there is a major timetable change so I do not anticipate that any EMUs will run in passenger service before Timetable change date. It is not as if there could be a simple substitution of EMUs for DMUs if the same train sets have to be used elsewhere during the day.

 

[317 forever]

The good thing about having Rugeley TV - Walsall - Birmingham New Street trains continue to London Euston is that they will have to be EMU. This should minimise the instances of DMUs covering, although in the event of heavy delays, staff shortages etc there might just have to be a DMU Rugeley - Birmingham shuttle.

 

[thecrofter]

Look out for this. It may just be a Platform Train Interface test with a 323 although it may not seem so from the schedule.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/S61784/2019/04/14/advanced