Charing Cross Jubilee Line

[Clip]

How many people board the Central line at Liverpool Street and travel to Bank? (It's quicker to walk.)

And if they did - and then swapped to using DLR - then they'd be arriving at different platform at Bank. What;s the maximum passenger-handling capacity of the DLR arrival platform compared to the Central line platform?

Yeah I get both of that but it still would be quicker by train into liv st.

not sure of how many it holds but its a lot as when one arrives in the peak its heaving. Ive even seen PCSO in the passageway keeping 2 lanes for those arriving and wanting to depart separate.

Also with this 'More people would be using bank' on the DLR then the same would be apparent with them coming from charing Cross would it not? Currently people cant use it so they find another way to bank but if they did then there would be even more and more chaotic as the departing platform would now also be full of people wanting to get off! So you are creating even more chaos than these extra percieved people who would come from the East

Also wouldnt the cost of changing the Y headshunt formation at present be expensive!

 

[transmanche]

Also with this 'More people would be using bank' on the DLR then the same would be apparent with them coming from charing Cross would it not?

Nicely offset by the number of people who would no longer board or alight at Bank, travelling through to/from Charing Cross.

 

[Deerfold]

How? Surely poeople who live out East who you say would use the DLR to get there already get a train into Liv St then the central to Bank, which is going to be quicker anyway, so there would be the same amount of people would there not?

That depends on where in the East it goes to, but presumably you're expecting some extra people to use it or there's no point continuing to extend the system.

Unless you think that with the advent of an extension there will be loads more people from the East wanting to travel to Bank for some reason that they havent done before?

Well the main reason they'd use it is because it's the main central London Terminus for the DLR. If the DLR extended further west, some people would continue to use Bank if it's convenient for them, some would travel further.

 

[Clip]

Nicely offset by the number of people who would no longer board or alight at Bank, travelling through to/from Charing Cross.

Im not sure of the interchange figures to other lines but Bank is busy because of it being the city of London and its hard to imagine that many people carrying on because they all come from South East London anyway so why then would they not just get the train into Charing cross?

That depends on where in the East it goes to, but presumably you're expecting some extra people to use it or there's no point continuing to extend the system.
Well the main reason they'd use it is because it's the main central London Terminus for the DLR. If the DLR extended further west, some people would continue to use Bank if it's convenient for them, some would travel further.

The original plans are for it to go through to Dagenham dock with five stations on the planned route, plenty more options for regeneration of some very poor areas of London which would gives kids who already live there better options to get to UEL rather than having to take 2 or 3 buses in the morning.

People seem to forget nowadays that the DLR was built with regeneration of run down areas in mind and it has done this successfully and whilst it serves for a quicker entry into the city from South East London - woolwich in particular its future should never be about oh lets go further into a city that already has multiple transport links and interchanges which make it easy to go around. It should stick to its first prophecy.


Or shall we just leave East London to itself now that we have built shiny new infrastructure for the Olympics and end everything at Stratford?

 

[Nym]

Yeah the interchange at Bank is not all that great but its not a major problem to do so either so they should spend it on going East.

The DLR Platforms at Bank do not allow passengers to exit fast enough to clear the circulation areas before the next service arrives for at least four hours per day, and a heavy peak for disruption elsewhere puts severe control measures in place, even without delays control measures are in at least once a week.

The interchange at Bank needs something doing to it, and extending West is one solution.

How many people board the Central line at Liverpool Street and travel to Bank? (It's quicker to walk.)

And if they did - and then swapped to using DLR - then they'd be arriving at different platform at Bank. What;s the maximum passenger-handling capacity of the DLR arrival platform compared to the Central line platform?

Significantly lower, the Central Line has two clear open exit paths plus additional routes and is a much shorter exit route via the Bullring compared with the DLR platforms where most exit to the Bank end that is very congested, compared with the Monument end that tends to be significantly quieter.

Also wouldnt the cost of changing the Y headshunt formation at present be expensive!

Not as expensive as you'd think, the tunnel construction in that area lends itself to easy extention, especially with the way the tunnels are formed as they don't use a ring re-enforcement in that area.

 

[transmanche]

Significantly lower, the Central Line has two clear open exit paths plus additional routes and is a much shorter exit route via the Bullring compared with the DLR platforms where most exit to the Bank end that is very congested, compared with the Monument end that tends to be significantly quieter.

Thanks, that's what I guessed.
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Im not sure of the interchange figures to other lines but Bank is busy because of it being the city of London and its hard to imagine that many people carrying on because they all come from South East London anyway so why then would they not just get the train into Charing cross?

Sorry, I might have misunderstood you, but are you claiming that all (or the vast majority of) the passengers arriving on the DLR at Bank have travelled from South East London?

 

[Kali]

Wish they'd have run the thing to Moorgate instead - commuting to the Docklands from North London via the Welwyn service was a pain.

RE: Charing X, if you're having to rebore everything and build new platform infrastructure, you're already doing a total new build anyway - might as well attempt to do it from scratch?

 

[Clip]

The DLR Platforms at Bank do not allow passengers to exit fast enough to clear the circulation areas before the next service arrives for at least four hours per day, and a heavy peak for disruption elsewhere puts severe control measures in place, even without delays control measures are in at least once a week.

The interchange at Bank needs something doing to it, and extending West is one solution.

Not as expensive as you'd think, the tunnel construction in that area lends itself to easy extention, especially with the way the tunnels are formed as they don't use a ring re-enforcement in that area.

It does need something doing about it but going west again is probably not the solution.

Thanks, that's what I guessed.
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Sorry, I might have misunderstood you, but are you claiming that all (or the vast majority of) the passengers arriving on the DLR at Bank have travelled from South East London?

If you have ever been on a peak train on either the Lewisham or Wollwich runs into Bank then there is a high amount of people that do yes, because its quicker to get to Bank on DLR then it is on the train from say, woolwich - only by a few mins but no need to interchange at LDN bridge. Obviously theres bound to be people who dont come directly from SE London as I know theres a lot that seem to travel in from the East too but you seem to think that the DLR is almost an exclusively East/SE London Railway. The other terminals or STR and STI all have direct links anyway and dont go near Bank anyway so its pretty safe of me to say that yes.


And what some of you are missing out on is that people who do this journey who may use Bank for the interchange will probably be using Crossrail when that is built in a few years time to get that far west anyway so it negates the cost of actually building it further west because people will just migrate to that.

 

[Bushy]

The DLR Platforms at Bank do not allow passengers to exit fast enough to clear the circulation areas before the next service arrives for at least four hours per day, and a heavy peak for disruption elsewhere puts severe control measures in place, even without delays control measures are in at least once a week.

The interchange at Bank needs something doing to it.

LU are planning major work at Bank as detailed on the TfL website including:

• A new southbound Northern line tunnel that will enable the platform to be widened, reducing crowding
• A new Northern line concourse with additional passageways and escalators to the Docklands Light Railway (DLR) and Central line
• Lifts to a new ticket hall in King William Street to provide step-free access between street level, the Northern line and the DLR

Regards

Bushy

 

[Tiny Tim]

The Charing Cross/Jubilee Line Station can be seen in quite a few TV programmes. It was used for Spooks a few years ago, and I keep thinking I've spotted it in various other shows such as New Tricks and Hunted.

 

[Nym]

LU are planning major work at Bank as detailed on the TfL website including:

• A new southbound Northern line tunnel that will enable the platform to be widened, reducing crowding
• A new Northern line concourse with additional passageways and escalators to the Docklands Light Railway (DLR) and Central line
• Lifts to a new ticket hall in King William Street to provide step-free access between street level, the Northern line and the DLR

Regards

Bushy

I think you'll find that this work is actually more about the dispersal from the Northern Line and doesn't actually provide any additional access to the DLR, it has just been, or shortly will be put up for Innovative Invitation to Tender from several contractors that have pre-qualified for the project, any actual work on the floor is a VERY long way away on the Bank Station Upgrade.

But as this is being put out to an IITT rather than a standard ITT details regarding all of this are awaiting finalisation with fasability only being carried out.

(And yes, I am fully aware of the Bank Station Upgrade plans as they stand, and I've looked at them in a fair amount of detail, including passenger interchange routes from the flow modelling that's been carried out.)
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The Charing Cross/Jubilee Line Station can be seen in quite a few TV programmes. It was used for Spooks a few years ago, and I keep thinking I've spotted it in various other shows such as New Tricks and Hunted.

It's a rather popular site as it's 'current' and trains can be provided as required, with drivers, for filming and moving equipment in/out...

 

[ert47]

Nicely offset by the number of people who would no longer board or alight at Bank, travelling through to/from Charing Cross.

Thinking about it, the interchange would mostly help those from the West End branch of the Northern Line or the Bakerloo Line, but is a little useless for the National Rail station (unless people stop using W&C line)

 

[Eagle]

Of course if there's a station at City Thameslink then that'll be a hugely useful interchange.