Chapeltown to Leeds via Meadowhall

[Iskra]

If NRE provides a journey that includes a double back, does that make it valid?

Just doing Chapeltown-Meadowhall-Leeds, as instructed by NRE, discussed it with the guard and he says you’re not supposed to do this?

Edit: I don’t normally do this journey this way, but I’m guessing it’s something to do with the Sunday service.

 

[yorkie]

If you change at meadowhall that is clearly not doubling back, and it is valid.

It's not permitted to double back between Meadowhall and Sheffield, however.

If a Guard said changing at MHS isn't allowed, then they're clueless and making things up without checking, which is unacceptable in my view. However rhereare insufficient safeguards in place to prevent such behaviour unfortunately.

 

[Iskra]

Okay, what is ‘doubling back’ then?

Surely heading South to Meadowhall, to then head North to Leeds is doubling back? I’m covering the same line twice.

Thanks for the info. The guard is being okay about this, it was more advice rather than a telling off.

 

[yorkie]

Okay, what is ‘doubling back’ then?

Surely heading South to Meadowhall, to then head North to Leeds is doubling back? I’m covering the same line twice.

Thanks for the info. The guard is being okay about this, it was more advice rather than a telling off.

Ah you meant via Barnsley & Kirkgate.

OK the overall journey that way does involve a 'double back', but it's an irrelevance in this case as there is no general rule against doubling back on the overall journey.

Meadowhall is an appropriate Routeing Point for this journey. There is therefore no doubling back on the map between Meadowhall and Leeds. The 'local journey' between Chapeltown and Meadowhall is a valid one and there is nothing against also doing that section of track on the maps.

If Chapeltown was itself a Routeing Point, the route wouldn't be allowed (without a map easement), but it isn't!

So the Guard was making it up and should have accepted NRE as being correct. No-one should discredit NRE's analysis of permitted routes if they don't actually understand the process involved themselves.

 

[Iskra]

Ah you meant via Barnsley & Kirkgate.

OK the journey that way does involve a double back, but it's an irrelevance in this case as there is no general rule against doubling back on the overall journey

Meadowhall is an appropriate Routeing Point for this journey. There is therefore no doubling back on the maps.

If Chapeltown was a Routeing Point, the route wouldn't be allowed (without a map easement), but it isn't. So the Guard was making it up and sgosho have accepted NRE as being correct. No-one should discredit NRE if they don't actually understand the process involved.

Okay, I understand now. Thanks for your help.

 

[robbeech]

There are several negative easements involving Meadowhall which may have confused the guard. It’s no excuse of course.

 

[_toommm_]

I can't seem to recreate the journey on any other day than Sunday, so it must just be an easement on Sunday due to the Leeds service being only 2-hourly. Like others have said though, it's no excuse, and with a valid itinerary, the guard had no valid points either way.

 

[yorkie]

I can't seem to recreate the journey on any other day than Sunday, so it must just be an easement on Sunday due to the Leeds service being only 2-hourly. Like others have said though, it's no excuse, and with a valid itinerary, the guard had no valid points either way.

There is no easement required; Meadowhall is an appropriate Routeing Point for a Chapeltown to Leeds ticket routed Not via Doncaster.

If anyone is interested to understand how the Routeing Guide works, feel free to sign up to a free fares workshop.

 

[kieron]

If NRE provides a journey that includes a double back, does that make it valid?

Just doing Chapeltown-Meadowhall-Leeds, as instructed by NRE, discussed it with the guard and he says you’re not supposed to do this?

Did you have a "not via Doncaster" ticket or an "any permitted" one? I just did a search for your route on NRE, and it only offered (more expensive) "not via Doncaster" tickets if I asked to go through Meadowhall.

 

[Iskra]

Did you have a "not via Doncaster" ticket or an "any permitted" one? I just did a search for your route on NRE, and it only offered (more expensive) "not via Doncaster" tickets if I asked to go through Meadowhall.

My ticket doesn't say any restrictions on it (apart from B1), but I think they normally say not via Doncaster. It would be very illogical to go anywhere near Doncaster on this journey though.

It was £7.20 return with a railcard, bought from a TVM.