Channel Tunnel 2

[Bald Rick]

Does the Channel Tunnel boring through a relatively linear layer of chalk marl also play a part in why it probably don't need to worry about water as much as the Severn Tunnel will after the same timespan? Chalk marl is waterproof and only had a few fractures that the tunnellers were able to deal with during construction, so water-logged ground for the most part seems fairly unlikely to be of any concern in the long term.

Most of the Channel Tunnel is ‘wet’, and not waterproof, albeit the Chalk Marl is relatively impermeable so there isn’t much water that gets through. The only part that is waterproof is the last few km undersea on the French side where the tunnel leaves the chalk marl and goes through the midlle / uoper chalk layers and the fault line between them.

 

[mike57]

Gauge clearing an existing route might be a better shot. You could clear a route as far as Godstone and have a short spur to a terminal adjacent to the M25? Alternatively do gauge clearance to the closest possible point to the lower Thames crossing or the Dartford crossing.

Ideally you want to be north of the Thames, what is HS1 gauge, I assume not sufficient for Le shuttle stock. You may also need to reconsider people staying in their vehicle if it's a longer shuttle. From a commercial drivers perspective a longer shuttle would save fuel and give a longer break, so not eating into driving hours.

If the infrastructure existed or could be modified at reasonable cost, I.e. not new build, then maybe the economics would work. If you could cut out the Thames crossing then private motorists might be attracted as well, and would probably pay a premium for time and fuel saved. Also maybe offer electric car charging.

The problem is it's not going to government funded from either side of the channel so it's going to need to turn a profit for any potential operators.

Surely the main players must have considered it, and come to the conclusion it's not worth it.

 

[Trainbike46]

Ideally you want to be north of the Thames, what is HS1 gauge,

HS1 is mostly GC with a section of GB+ at Ashford platforms.

I assume not sufficient for Le shuttle stock.

It is not.

 

[TheGrew]

I imagine GC would be sufficient for a single deck of cars based on what I have seen on the continent. This would then need dedicated rolling stock, which, to be fair, may well be required to avoid pathing problems on HS1 with higher speeds.

 

[zwk500]

Ideally you want to be north of the Thames, what is HS1 gauge, I assume not sufficient for Le shuttle stock. You may also need to reconsider people staying in their vehicle if it's a longer shuttle. From a commercial drivers perspective a longer shuttle would save fuel and give a longer break, so not eating into driving hours.

If the infrastructure existed or could be modified at reasonable cost, I.e. not new build, then maybe the economics would work. If you could cut out the Thames crossing then private motorists might be attracted as well, and would probably pay a premium for time and fuel saved. Also maybe offer electric car charging.

The problem is it's not going to government funded from either side of the channel so it's going to need to turn a profit for any potential operators.

Surely the main players must have considered it, and come to the conclusion it's not worth it.

DB did run a piggyback trailer operation to Ripple Lane (Barking). There's a picture of it at Ripple Lane here: https://www.railfreight.com/railfre...o-goes-slow-and-heavy-through-high-speed-one/

1 road of Ripple Lane domestic yard is cleared to UIC GB to facilitate shunting from the exchange sidings to the Euroterminal in the middle of the domestic lines. So it's not impossible to run something like this if somebody really wanted even with existing infrastructure.

I imagine GC would be sufficient for a single deck of cars based on what I have seen on the continent. This would then need dedicated rolling stock, which, to be fair, may well be required to avoid pathing problems on HS1 with higher speeds.

Technically UK loading gauge accepts double-deck car carriers, Ford ship vehicles on them [1]. However the issue with any car shuttle heading further into the UK is that the wagon size and journey length would likely mean that passengers could not stay with their vehicles, but instead would need to be in ordinary carriages, Motorail style. This is already done with the freight shuttles for the channel tunnel anyway, but obviously slows down the loading and unloading process slightly and requires additional resources (staffing and/or a bus). I've also only seen hatchbacks or similarly low vehicles on double-decks. Today's Land Rovers and SUVs would almost certainly need a single deck (but probably would still fit within W12).

[1] https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-c...5cd124dc2121b9d7cfc0f48775caf024&searchtype=0

 

[HSTEd]

I imagine GC would be sufficient for a single deck of cars based on what I have seen on the continent. This would then need dedicated rolling stock, which, to be fair, may well be required to avoid pathing problems on HS1 with higher speeds.

The problem with using single decks of cars is that it would seriously harm the economics.
You wouldn't be able to fit enough vehicles in to each train to cover the fixed costs.

The large loading gauge of the Eurotunnel operation is likely required to allow sufficient capacity and to avoid operational constraints relating to people staying with their vehicles.

 

[Mgameing123]

The problem with using single decks of cars is that it would seriously harm the economics.
You wouldn't be able to fit enough vehicles in to each train to cover the fixed costs.

The large loading gauge of the Eurotunnel operation is likely required to allow sufficient capacity and to avoid operational constraints relating to people staying with their vehicles.

It’s not even “large”. It’s the EU standard for new railways built within the EU.

 

[SynthD]

HS1 is mostly GC with a section of GB+ at Ashford platforms.

Is the through line at Ashford GC?

 

[HSTEd]

It’s not even “large”. It’s the EU standard for new railways built within the EU.

The Chunnel is built almost a metre wider and taller than GC loading gauge. 5.6m tall, 4.1m wide

The only other European line to have dimensions like that, that I know of, is the Betuweroute in the Netherlands.

 

[Mgameing123]

The Chunnel is built almost a metre wider and taller than GC loading gauge. 5.6m tall, 4.1m wide

The only other European line to have dimensions like that, that I know of, is the Betuweroute in the Netherlands.

UIC GC is the standard.

 

[HSTEd]

UIC GC is the standard.

Yes, and the Channel tunnel is far larger than UIC GC.

It's 95cm taller and wider.

The trailers for the Eurotunnel operation can go nowhere other than the tunnel, the terminals and their depot.

 

[zwk500]

Is the through line at Ashford GC?

Ashford West Jn (HS1) to Ashford East Jn (HS1) via HS1 tunnel & viaduct is UIC GC
Ashford West Jn (HS1) to Ashford East Jn (HS1) via Ashford International Platforms 3/4 is UIC GB+
(Both from the HS1 Network Statement)

The Ashford International Area is cleared to W9 (with restrictions) by Network Rail in the Sectional Appendix.
From HS1 in either direction it is only possible to route to platforms 3-6 at Ashford International, the non-platform lines are inaccessible to trains to/from HS1 (there aren't enough sets of points to do it).

 

[Northumbriana]

Yes, and the Channel tunnel is far larger than UIC GC.

It's 95cm taller and wider.

The trailers for the Eurotunnel operation can go nowhere other than the tunnel, the terminals and their depot.

It's almost like a real life version of that episode of Thomas The Tank Engine where that train refuses to come out of the tunnel because it's raining and he's worried about his new coat of paint running so they seal him in. Except with Sangatte and Cheriton terminals added.

 

[TheGrew]

It's almost like a real life version of that episode of Thomas The Tank Engine where that train refuses to come out of the tunnel because it's raining and he's worried about his new coat of paint running so they seal him in. Except with Sangatte and Cheriton terminals added.

Ahh Henry