Changing trains or passing through Stockport

[Trainfan2019]

Please can anyone help me with a ticket query for travelling between Cheshire stations and Sheffield.

If I travel from say Crewe or Macclesfield to Sheffield the single ticket states 'valid only for travel via (changing trains or passing through) Stockport. This is assuming I don't go for split ticket options like I often do.

Sorry if this sounds a daft question to ask but does the statement mean that I can actually change trains at Manchester Piccadilly instead of Stockport? I would be passing through Stockport on the first train and back through Stockport on the second train to Sheffield.

If travelling in the weekday evening peak I know from experience that I would have more chance of a seat on the train to Sheffield if I got on at Manchester than if I got on at Stockport.

Thanks in advance.

 

[krus_aragon]

Please can anyone help me with a ticket query for travelling between Cheshire stations and Sheffield.

If I travel from say Crewe or Macclesfield to Sheffield the single ticket states 'valid only for travel via (changing trains or passing through) Stockport. This is assuming I don't go for split ticket options like I often do.

Sorry if this sounds a daft question to ask but does the statement mean that I can actually change trains at Manchester Piccadilly instead of Stockport? I would be passing through Stockport on the first train and back through Stockport on the second train to Sheffield.

If travelling in the weekday evening peak I know from experience that I would have more chance of a seat on the train to Sheffield if I got on at Manchester than if I got on at Stockport.

Thanks in advance.

If you've travelled through Stockport on your way to Manchester Piccadilly, that's absolutely fine.

The text on the ticket is a slightly elongated version of the base ticket restriction, which is 'VIA STOCKPORT'.

This is just meant to control the route that you take from your starting station to Sheffield. You're expected to pass through Stockport at some point. You're not allowed to go via Derby and Chsterfield, for example.

 

[_toommm_]

If you've travelled through Stockport on your way to Manchester Piccadilly, that's absolutely fine.

The text on the ticket is a slightly elongated version of the base ticket restriction, which is 'VIA STOCKPORT'.

This is just meant to control the route that you take from your starting station to Sheffield. You're expected to pass through Stockport at some point. You're not allowed to go via Derby and Chsterfield, for example.

Is that allowed though, seen as you're doubling back between Manchester Piccadilly and Stockport if you then get a TPE or EMR from Piccadilly to Sheffield?

 

[krus_aragon]

Is that allowed though, seen as you're doubling back between Manchester Piccadilly and Stockport if you then get a TPE or EMR from Piccadilly to Sheffield?

Ah, I missed that sentence, sorry.

If you were getting a Northern service from Piccadilly (going via Marple rather than Stockport) that'd be fine. But doubling back again through Stockport isn't allowed. (There aren't any easements permitting it on a single ticket, and a search on NRE for trains from Crewe to Sheffield via Manchester shows you need more than one ticket for the journey.)

An alternative would be to take the Crewe-Manchester-Liverpool stopper (which avoids Stockport) to Manchester, and then travelling through Stockport on the train to Sheffield.

 

[Trainfan2019]

Thanks for your replies.

I had thought of the Crewe Manchester Liverpool stopper as I sometimes catch this if using split tickets. Trouble is as with all stoppers it takes ages.

I've travelled from Cheshire and Staffordshire to Sheffield via Derby before with split tickets. Is there any reason why via Stockport is the officially recognised route rather than via Derby? Why isn't doubling back allowed though?

 

[_toommm_]

Thanks for your replies.

I had thought of the Crewe Manchester Liverpool stopper as I sometimes catch this if using split tickets. Trouble is as with all stoppers it takes ages.

I've travelled from Cheshire and Staffordshire to Sheffield via Derby before with split tickets. Is there any reason why via Stockport is the officially recognised route rather than via Derby? Why isn't doubling back allowed though?

I would just be careful with the stopper it you have somewhere to be, especially on Sundays. As you probably know, it tends to get cancelled, or shortformed, meaning it runs late and skips stops.

 

[krus_aragon]

Thanks for your replies.

I had thought of the Crewe Manchester Liverpool stopper as I sometimes catch this if using split tickets. Trouble is as with all stoppers it takes ages.

I've travelled from Cheshire and Staffordshire to Sheffield via Derby before with split tickets. Is there any reason why via Stockport is the officially recognised route rather than via Derby? Why isn't doubling back allowed though?

Doubling back is not allowed by default for most journeys, unless there's a specific easement in the routeing guide allowing it. (It would usually be because the station at which you could change is a small one with limited service, which isn't true of Stockport.)

As for why Derby isn't considered valid...
From Chester, there are two differently routed fares available to Sheffield: Via Huddersfield (priced by TPE) and Via Stockport (priced by TfW). For whatever reason, TPE don't offer a Via Huddersfield from Crewe so it's just the TfW one. When only one fare is offered, it would normally be routed "Any Permitted", but as it happens, there aren't any other routes that could be permitted.

The routes you're allowed to take are the shortest route, any route on a direct train, or a route shown in the Routeing Guide. There aren't any direct trains for this journey, and the shortest route is via Stockport and Hazel Grove. The Routeing Guide doesn't offer any route other than through Stockport either. In this case, I'd guess that the route has been changed from "Any Permitted" to "Via Stockport" to make it clear to passengers that the Derby option isn't allowed. (Why it isn't allowed would be a different matter...)

Incidentally, the Routeing Guide considers travelling via Derby to be a permitted route for tickets from Stoke-on-Trent, but not from Chester or North Wales. Travellers from Shrewsbury can travel via Derby, but only by going via Birmingham as well.

 

[Llandudno]

Interesting stuff, I have the same issues travelling between North Wales and Chesterfield with journey planners normally suggesting changing at Crewe and Stockport.

It does seem odd that when you get to Crewe and a Derby bound train is about to depart you are not allowed to use it? (Unless you Split Ticket)

Admittedly Crewe - Derby is a slow route but you can always get a seat, which is more than you can say on a number of Stockport to Sheffield trains.

How often is the Routing Guide get reviewed, whose job is it and how do you suggest amends?

 

[krus_aragon]

How often is the Routing Guide get reviewed, whose job is it and how do you suggest amends?

Frequently, as can bee seen from this thread:https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/national-routeing-guide-update.99396/

As for how to suggest amendments, I don't know the procedure myself, but think it would be an good idea for a new topic.

 

[Llandudno]

Frequently, as can bee seen from this thread:https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/national-routeing-guide-update.99396/

As for how to suggest amendments, I don't know the procedure myself, but think it would be an good idea for a new topic.

Thanks for some of the tips re. Day returns, it’s mainly period returns or singles that I use though!

 

[unlevel42]

The fastest and most convenient route between Sheffield/Chesterfield and Holyhead is still, in some years, via Tamworth.
This route was "stopped" when in 1986 somebody built the Hazel Grove Chord.
Then, other permitted route sold and stamped from Bangor(avoiding Manchester Victoria) to Sheffield were through Uttoxeter via Derby and Holmes Chapel, Altrincham, Warrington BQ/Central into Piccadilly.

As Sheffield staff (like most large city staff) were painfully geographically unaware and being ER somewhat inflexible, they would not sell these variants. A platform ticket, the big timetable and a MR guard was the best solution.

 

[6Gman]

Interesting stuff, I have the same issues travelling between North Wales and Chesterfield with journey planners normally suggesting changing at Crewe and Stockport.

It does seem odd that when you get to Crewe and a Derby bound train is about to depart you are not allowed to use it? (Unless you Split Ticket)

Admittedly Crewe - Derby is a slow route but you can always get a seat, which is more than you can say on a number of Stockport to Sheffield trains.

How often is the Routing Guide get reviewed, whose job is it and how do you suggest amends?

Not at college times with a 153 you won't !

 

[Trainfan2019]

Its hard to believe how the routing process is so indepth and complicated just to get from one place to another! As the thought of a full and standing TPE train from Stockport to Sheffield in the evening peak makes me stressed just thinking about it, I'll stick to Crewe via Derby on a class 153.

 

[kieron]

An alternative would be to take the Crewe-Manchester-Liverpool stopper (which avoids Stockport) to Manchester, and then travelling through Stockport on the train to Sheffield.

You could even combine these and get a Crewe-Sheffield ticket with an itinerary via Manchester Airport and Marple, avoiding Stockport completely. According to NRE*, it takes less than three hours eastbound.

NRE doesn't show the same as being valid starting from Macclesfield, although I don't know why it doesn't.

One thing which caught my eye about this particular ticket is that it's an off peak return, but it doesn't have a restriction code. I knew there were already restriction codes (such as A1, used for the Whitchurch (Salop)-Rugby off peak day return) which did nothing, but I hadn't seen one with no restriction code at all. It's possible to get details of the restriction code for an off peak ticket from the NRE planner, but this ticket just confuses it.

* You may need to delete any nationalrail.co.uk cookies you have for this link to open correctly.

 

[VT 390]

Its hard to believe how the routing process is so indepth and complicated just to get from one place to another! As the thought of a full and standing TPE train from Stockport to Sheffield in the evening peak makes me stressed just thinking about it, I'll stick to Crewe via Derby on a class 153.

Could you not reserve a seat between Stockport and Sheffield? As far as I'm aware this is possible on both the East Midlands and Trans Pennine services.

 

[Trainfan2019]

Could you not reserve a seat between Stockport and Sheffield? As far as I'm aware this is possible on both the East Midlands and Trans Pennine services.

9 times out of 10 when getting on at Stockport the trains are too crowded to get near my reserved seat. I learned a long while ago that if using TPE then it's always better getting on at Piccadilly but making sure I'm on the correct part of the platform for the carriage with my reserved seat. Stockport is a bit better with East Midlands if there's 4 carriages.

 

[Llandudno]

9 times out of 10 when getting on at Stockport the trains are too crowded to get near my reserved seat. I learned a long while ago that if using TPE then it's always better getting on at Piccadilly but making sure I'm on the correct part of the platform for the carriage with my reserved seat. Stockport is a bit better with East Midlands if there's 4 carriages.

IF there are 4 carriages on EMR.

Yesterday on an EMR train towards Liverpool no seat reservations on a a pair of class 156’s.
(Not come across a pair of 156’s, sometimes 158+156, on this route before, hope that this is a one off and not an EMR innovation!)


A bit chaotic as many people were travelling in groups to the test match and, understandably had pre-booked seats so that they could sit together.


The last east bound train 2228 Ex Piccadilly, was only 2 cars and no trolley, this is usually 4 with trolley, again I hope a one-off and not an EMR change.