Changing trains en route with an Advance?

[EM2]

Further to my question about power points on LM to Crewe, here's one about the ticketing.
£15 Std Advance EUS-CRE for the 15:46, marked AP LON MID ONLY which was due to arrive at 19:06. When we got to Stafford (at about 18:02), the driver (or conductor) made an announcement that anyone for Crewe should change and take the 18:09, as we would not depart Stafford until 18:20.
Being unsure of the validity if I changed, I elected to stay on the booked train. But if I had changed, and then had my ticket inspected, how would I stand? After all, I would have been advised to change trains by the TOC staff...

 

[ChrisTheRef]

You could probably be given the benefit of the doubt, but it may involve a lengthy process writing to London Midland.

Best policy with advance tickets is to stick exactly to what your reservations say.

 

[Paul Kelly]

A vaguely similar situation - there used to be a Cross Country train on weekdays from Plymouth to York, arriving around 11pm or so - the train took almost an hour from Leeds to York as it went a long way round via Castleford. I was on this train a couple of times just before Arriva took over from Virgin on the Cross Country franchise and I remember the train manager announcing very clearly just before we arrived into Leeds that anyone who didn't have an advance ticket could change to a different service (actually a Transpennine Express service, but he didn't mention that) that would get them to York more quickly, but if you had an advance ticket you must stay put on this train. He said it twice and was very clear and precise about it.

Was the Stafford to Crewe train also a London Midland service? Maybe if both trains are run by the same operator, they don't worry about it so much?

 

[jopsuk]

Don't LM have guards? With twenty minutes, surely you could have got off, found the platform that the fast train would come into, found the guard when it arrived, asked him, and then:
A: if he'd given you the go-ahead, got on his train
B: if he'd politely said no, ambled back to your still waiting train

 

[yorkie]

A vaguely similar situation - there used to be a Cross Country train on weekdays from Plymouth to York, arriving around 11pm or so - the train took almost an hour from Leeds to York as it went a long way round via Castleford.

That should take a lot less than an hour! 40 minutes is more like it. But I think there may have been a long wait at Leeds on that train, plus slack time into York.

Was the Stafford to Crewe train also a London Midland service? Maybe if both trains are run by the same operator, they don't worry about it so much?

Yes, I don't think it would be an issue. You'd be following staff instructions, and still on the same operator.

 

[Matt Taylor]

Don't LM have guards? With twenty minutes, surely you could have got off, found the platform that the fast train would come into, found the guard when it arrived, asked him, and then:
A: if he'd given you the go-ahead, got on his train
B: if he'd politely said no, ambled back to your still waiting train

Except that I expect that the LM service leaves Stafford and runs to Crewe via Stoke thus making it much slower than a service direct via Madely Jnc.

 

[bb21]

Yes, I don't think it would be an issue. You'd be following staff instructions, and still on the same operator.

A few years back on the old MML timetable there used to be the opportunity southbound to change from the slow train onto the fast train at Leicester in order to arrive about 15/20 minutes earlier into St Pancras as the slow train (Turbostar 170s) would normally arrive at xx25/xx55, wait in Platform 4, and not depart until xx35/xx05, whereas the HST arrives and leaves on the hour and half hour, overtaking the 170s from Platform 3.

Many a time I heard the guard announcing as we approached Leicester that anyone with a ticket which requires compulsory reservation (loosely translated nowadays into Advance tickets) MUST stay on the slow train whereas everyone else can change onto the fast train if they wished. Sometimes (quite a few times as well) guards simply mentioned that people can change onto the fast train for earlier arrival into London without saying anything about the restrictions on tickets such as Apex and Super Advance, so I assume that it is still not valid for the transfer even though both services are operated by the same company - MML.

Then again if you argue that you're simply following staff instruction to change trains, it'll be your word against the guard's and LM might turn around and say that you should have been aware of the terms. I wouldn't risk it, unless having checked with the train manager of the onward service first as someone has mentioned.

 

[EM2]

Don't LM have guards? With twenty minutes, surely you could have got off, found the platform that the fast train would come into, found the guard when it arrived, asked him, and then:
A: if he'd given you the go-ahead, got on his train
B: if he'd politely said no, ambled back to your still waiting train

I *could* have got off the slow, with two bags, wandered around Stafford station, find the platform for the fast, then try and find the guard and *then* see if it would be OK and then find out it's not and go all the way back still weighed down with the bags.
Seeing as the guard on my service didn't even know ('Er...you'd probably be all right...'), I wasn't going to risk it.

 

[London_Midland]

Just to clarify the situation with Advance tickets:

The ticket is only valid as per the itinerary printed on the accompanying 'reservations' receipt.

Between London and Crewe, there are two options given for Advance tickets: one of them is staying on the same train, and one of them involves changing at Stafford onto our faster Birmingham-Liverpool service.

Both tickets are quota controlled, so sometimes you may only have the choice of the direct service.

Regarding the announcement made by the conductor, that should really have included the phrase 'unless you are travelling with an Advance ticket'. However, if you had changed trains on this instruction, you wouldn't have paid any extra.

Hope that helps.

David.

 

[Mr Spock]

I have frequently travelled from Rugby to Crewe and changed trains at Stafford nearly every time.

The guard always announces that passengers for Crewe, etc should change at Stafford for a faster service and I cannot recall that any guard has announced that holders of advance tickets should stay on the "slower" train.