Changing the number in a group

[poshfan]

I have 12 GPS-4 FCC Peterborough to London super off peak day travel cards, £12 each. As I understand it, GPS-4 are only valid if 4 people travel together. Now we only need 11, can I exchange 4 of the tickets for 3 GPS-3 tickets at a ticket office?

The tickets each have a unique 5 digit ticket number, but they also have what I assume ties them together as a group, which is a 10 digit order number, but all 12 have the same order number. So if we chanced it and travelled as a group of 11 and got caught by an RPI, how would he know which 3 to single out as not travelling in a group of 4?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Revenue staff would only really be interested GPS-4 tickets being used in multiples of 4 and GPS-3 tickets being used in multiples of three. Usually the five digit number in these groups is sequencial (eg: 10203 + 10204 + 10205 + 10206)

Officially, you can't just swap them, you'd have to hand the tickets in for a refund (with admin fee) and buy a new group of GPS-3 tickets.

It has been known for two or three people holding four GPS-4, or three GPS-3, tickets to be allowed to travel, but this is not official policy. If you are travelling as a group of 11, it is less likely to be noticed (if it is not noticed, it does not mean it is valid).

 

[CyrusWuff]

Revenue staff would only really be interested GPS-4 tickets being used in multiples of 4 and GPS-3 tickets being used in multiples of three. Usually the five digit number in these groups is sequencial (eg: 10203 + 10204 + 10205 + 10206)

Officially, you can't just swap them, you'd have to hand the tickets in for a refund (with admin fee) and buy a new group of GPS-3 tickets.

I would suggest that such a swap MAY see the admin fee waived as it's a change of plans requiring the purchase of a new ticket, though this would likely depend on the clerk. YMMV, of course.

 

[afyutr]

Can one of the people travel on two tickets? That'd be an interesting one as I bet there's nothing that says you can't have 2 valid tickets for a journey... Prove me wrong!

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Can one of the people travel on two tickets? That'd be an interesting one as I bet there's nothing that says you can't have 2 valid tickets for a journey... Prove me wrong!

There is nothing wrong at all in a passenger holding more than one valid ticket for their journey.

However, there is something wrong when a passenger breaches a Condition of a special ticket, such as "Groupsave 4"; First Capital Connect state in the Terms and Conditions : "GroupSave 4 is available for combinations of 4 adults; 2 adults and 2 children; 1 adult and 3 children; 3 adults and 1 child". I'm not quite sure how, in your imagination, '4 adults' can be read as '3 adults with one of them holding 2 tickets', or how '4 adults' can become 'up to 4 adults'. It is not.

Another condition is slightly less insistent : "GroupSave fares are based on all people travelling together at all times and cannot split from the group to travel separately." I understand 'all people . . . cannot split' is likely to be construed as 'all people must be present'. Can you reasonably demonstrate otherwise?

However, I tend to agree with hairyhandedfool that there is a very high possibility that a blind eye would be presented if there was tickets for 12 passengers and only 11 were travelling, if indeed the number of passengers was counted at all. But that should not be assured.

 

[afyutr]

I agree with you that it is clearly not right to try and travel on two tickets to get round this particular problem. Whilst you could claim to be in both groups, you'd need to do some time/space shifting I suppose if both tickets were being checked at the same time.

I suppose it is possible to make two groups of 4 out of 7 using a Venn diagram type thing though. If one of the four adults happens to have 2 tickets, so what? He is surely allowed to buy two tickets and be in two groups if he so wishes.

 

[34D]

Can't you say that Johnny is in the toilet? Or offer one of the ticketless passengers on your train the chance to join your group?

 

[island]

Can't you say that Johnny is in the toilet? Or offer one of the ticketless passengers on your train the chance to join your group?

The first would be lying and the second would be transferring a ticket, neither of which are very good.

 

[34D]

The first would be lying and the second would be transferring a ticket, neither of which are very good.

Agreed on the first point. Re the second point, I don't see the difference between:

-him buying a ticket and giving it to his friend Bob

-him buying a ticket and giving it to a passenger on the train called Colin

 

[bb21]

Agreed on the first point. Re the second point, I don't see the difference between:

-him buying a ticket and giving it to his friend Bob

-him buying a ticket and giving it to a passenger on the train called Colin

Was the ticket intended for use by Bob when bought? There is a subtle difference here.

In reality the chance of it being enforced is negligible.

 

[PermitToTravel]

I suspect though that there might be some water to the "I'm in both groupsaves" argument. Aren't they both individual contracts?

 

[island]

Most guards and RPIs, facing this situation, will look at the 12 GPS-4 tickets, see around twelve people as part of the group, possibly grip or scribble on the tickets, and move on.