Changing an incorrectly discounted ticket

[jon0844]

Here's a nice simple question for you all: Changing a ticket that was incorrectly purchased (wrong discount applied).

Let me explain; I was in Stevenage today to take my son to a play centre, but as he fell asleep in the car I saw it as the perfect time to buy train tickets for a trip next week.

To save time, I opted to buy via the East Coast website (and earn points) and run into the station to pick them up, saving queuing time given there were loads of people there for a festival at Knebworth House.

To cut a long story short*, my initial purchase didn't go through and the second time I selected all the details, I stupidly selected Network Gold Card instead of Network Railcard.

I paid online, got my code, and within 2 minutes had my tickets - then I noticed the mistake. Double checked the confirmation email and, yes, it was my fault.

Still, no matter, the tickets were dated 8th August. First of all, I asked one of the RPIs (doing a great trade in penalty fares from what I assume were festival goers arriving and trying to use Oyster) if a GOLDC discounted ticket would be a problem when presented with a Network Railcard.

I was told the discount was the same and he'd let it go, but there was a very, no EXTREMELY HIGH, chance that some other RPIs wouldn't see it that way. He said I should immediately go and change them. Sound advice.

So, to the ticket window I go (FCC) and I asked to change the ticket, to be asked where I bought the tickets. I said East Coast, but picked up from Stevenage station less than 10 minutes ago.

I'm then told that I need to write in to East Coast as they sold me the tickets, as he couldn't manage things like seat reservations etc.

I pointed out that I only booked via East Coast, and suggested he look at the tickets (I'd explained they were for travel from Potters Bar to Heathrow) so he'd see that I'd be travelling on First Capital Connect, for at least part of the journey.

He couldn't understand why I didn't buy the tickets from FCC then, and said there was no way he could change them and I must write in.

Thinking that was rather odd, but possibly correct, he then said that I'd probably be fine using them anyway with a Network Railcard anyway. I mentioned what the RPI said and he then changed to agreeing that that maybe I wouldn't be after all. Great advice there (the man at the station said I could....).

At this point he spoke to a colleague, who confirmed that FCC couldn't change the ticket and I'd need to go back to East Coast. However, it was then pointed out that there was in fact an office right next door! What's more, it was open, so why the original advice was to write in, I do not know.

Thanking them for their help (but presuming they thought I was being an annoying idiot), I ventured next door into a nice quiet office and in a matter of minutes, the old tickets were marked VOID by his machine and two new return tickets were issued. Nice and simple, have a nice day etc. Job done!

So the question is; did I really need to get East Coast to change these tickets?!

* Imagine if I hadn't kept this short.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

It's a tricky one because the rules don't account for this scenario (much as they don't for changing a railcard discounted ticket to a non-discounted ticket before travel).

I guess official policy is apply for a refund (with admin fee as it was your fault) and buy a new ticket. The FCC staff could have passed on the refund application to East Coast, temporarily leaving you out of pocket.

I personally wouldn't have told you to write in specifically, but would have told you to contact EC, this might include going to the EC ticket office.

 

[Muzer]

I've had a railcard ticket excessed to a non-railcard ticket by a very nice guard when I forgot my railcard (I later learnt that it wasn't usually done). So it's certainly possible to do it that way - is it possible to do a cross-railcard excess?

 

[jon0844]

In my case, the difference in cost was nil. It was just a case of needing it to say NSE instead of GOLDC. I would have gladly paid an admin fee given it was my error, although in my defence - it was the site messing up that made me rush my second purchase attempt!!

What I thought was odd is that there was an EC office next door to the main ticket window (something I never knew until now, despite having been at that station many times before!) and the initial suggestion was to write in.

Another question; If I hadn't noticed my error and got stopped by an RPI, what would they have likely done? Wrong railcard, but same ticket value and (given the cost of the ticket), no difference in ticket price due to NSE having a £13 minimum fare?

 

[maniacmartin]

Technically the ticket wouldn't be valid and you would have to buy a new one, however I doubt many staff would enforce this. You are not supposed to be able excess away railcard discounts officially, so if it was your fault, the official way is to refund minus the £10 admin fee.

You are supposed to take up issuing errors with the issuer (East Coast in this case). Some TOCs insist you deal with Web Support if you bought from the website, rather than using one of their ticket offices (even if its the same TOC), so in defense of the FCC they might have thought that an EC ticket office would just refer you to EC web support anyway.

 

[yorkie]

Whenever this subject has cropped up, the response from rail staff who check tickets has tended to be 'I'd let it go' - there's a couple of threads that a search could produce along those lines.

As for getting EC to change the tickets, they will probably insist on admin fee. I believe the admin fee should be £10 per transaction, which is bad enough, but when this problem happened to a forum member, EC insisted on charging an admin fee of £10 per ticket (each ticket cost less than £10) and only when the passenger mentioned other complaints that had not been adequately answered and insisted on speaking to a manager, did EC finally agree to refunding the original tickets for replacements to be re-booked.

As it happens, the guard on the train wouldn't have minded anyway, so all that faffing was for nothing.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

"Take it up with the TOC", eh?
Yes, I've made this error a few times (always on the EastCoast site) and have taken it up with the TOC with varying success.

For clarity, on each occasion, it has been a consequence of experiencing difficulties with the site that have led me to refresh the query; refreshing the screen will, unpredictably, repopulate some of the search form fields with their default values. I will usually notice if the date reverts to today's date, or the stations revert to blanks, but the railcard type always defaults to 16-25 and as long as a railcard remains selected, then I've sometimes not noticed the "change" to the default railcard type.

Anyway, on the most recent occasion, I noticed immediately and contacted EC web support. They wanted to charge me the £10 admin fee, despite my pointing out that it was't a change of journey. My query was escalated to a Supervisor and the need to charge the £10 was repeated, despite my pointing out the speed of my response, the neutrality of change to costs or reservations or any other revenue or journey detail. I was referred to EastCoast Customer Services. They repeated the need for the £10 admin fee. They justified it on the grounds of the actual costs (in postage etc.) and I repeated that there was no post required and the costs were surely less than the 40 minutes of telephone time they'd already incurred. After some conversation, they encouraged me to try any of three alternatives:- to take the ticket (as yet uncollected) to Newcastle station and ask them to change it; or to attempt travel with the wrongly printed discounts and to ask the Guard; to write explaining the full circumstances, and, to request a refund of the original cost (the price of Advance tickets may since have risen).

Do you know what? I stupidy tried the first of these - I went into the station and explained that the tickets would show the correct price but the wrong Discount name. I was told to contact "web support". Full circle.
When I mentioned that I had started with "web support" and it had been their advice to try in the station, the kind person shrugged their kind shoulders and said "yes, when I tried to change some tickets I bought, they wanted to charge me £10, and I work here!".

I'll take my luck with the Guard on the day of travel.

 

[yorkie]

the kind person shrugged their kind shoulders and said "yes, when I tried to change some tickets I bought, they wanted to charge me £10, and I work here!".

That sounds about right (sadly). ECs policies are just as anti-staff as they are anti-customer.

On one occasion (not recently) I was with an EC staff member who had a pass entitling him to a free journey in 1st if travelling alone, OR he could bring a friend for a free journey if in Standard. So, obviously, we were sat in standard. The guard then issued a reminder that we were not to sit in 1st, as apparently they have been instructed to issue such reminders! But as we were settled in Standard, why on earth was there a need for that?

There's probably only one guard on EC who I would be concerned may not accept tickets in the circumstanced described in this thread ( I think several people will know exactly who I am referring to!)

 

[Hadders]

I can confirm that the East Coast booking office at Stevenage gives excellent service.

Seems unusual to have two separate booking offices at the same station these days. I do hope they keep them both open.

I always use the EC office at Stevenage given the choice.

 

[island]

I suspect most staff would pass an NSE ticket presented with a Gold card, as NSE is a more restrictive discount [with the exception of on zone 1-6 Travelcards].

 

[jon0844]

I've been sold NSE marked tickets many times with a Gold Card in the past, including on the Heathrow Express.

I'd feel somewhat more confident with that, as a Gold Card is technically a Network Railcard but with some extra benefits, rather than the other way around.

Still, the RPI that I'd fear bumping into is now driving trains so I'd have probably been just fine!!

 

[island]

I've been sold NSE marked tickets many times with a Gold Card in the past, including on the Heathrow Express.

The Heathrow Express TIS doesn't have an NGC option!

 

[Muzer]

I've been sold the standard error of SNR instead of Y-P, and on one journey NSE instead of Y-P (no price difference in either case). Ticket office staff seem rather lax about getting the right railcard discount when they're identically-priced. Or maybe it's just SWT.