Changes to SE metro services next June

[NorthKent1989]

I'm pretty sure when it's been Cannon St/London Bridge, which has been the majority of cases, it's run via Greenwich.

Not last summer, it was routed via Lewisham/Blackheath, fast from LB to Lewisham, then all stops via Blackheath & Woolwich to Dartford then semi fast calling only at Greenhithe, Gravesend, Strood, Medway Towns, Sittingborne, Faversham, Whitstable, Herne Bay, Margate, Broadstairs and Ramsgate

The Victoria service was fast to Lewisham, then Blackheath, Charlton, Woolwich Arsenal, Plumstead, Abbey Wood, Slade Green, Dartford then same calling points semi fast as the Cannon Street service

The North Kent excursions until 2017 was basically an extension of the old Gillingham semi fasts.

2018-2022 it ran via Greenwich calling at all stations to Dartford then the semi fast calling points.

 

[brad465]

Regarding the Blackheath tunnel closure, does anyone know if this will lead to the line speed being raised through it after? It's a slow trundle at the moment of around 30mph, if the restriction is lifted to something like 50/60mph, this could knock a minute or two off services working through it, which while not a lot numerically, on a tightly timetabled metro service can make a noticeable difference to service timings/punctuality.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Regarding the Blackheath tunnel closure, does anyone know if this will lead to the line speed being raised through it after? It's a slow trundle at the moment of around 30mph, if the restriction is lifted to something like 50/60mph, this could knock a minute or two off services working through it, which while not a lot numerically, on a tightly timetabled metro service can make a noticeable difference to service timings/punctuality.

There has been an underlying problem with rail corrosion for many years but the planned works are to better seal the tunnel from water ingress if they are successful then no reason why line speed can't be increased subject to all other interactions with clearances and signalling constraints. However, I suspect nothing will change and can't see them rewriting the timetable to take advantage of an improvement if they do as that just the way in todays railway.

 

[JammyJames08]

Regarding the Blackheath tunnel closure, does anyone know if this will lead to the line speed being raised through it after? It's a slow trundle at the moment of around 30mph, if the restriction is lifted to something like 50/60mph, this could knock a minute or two off services working through it, which while not a lot numerically, on a tightly timetabled metro service can make a noticeable difference to service timings/punctuality.

According to some of the older drivers, it was 60mph throughout many years back, but residents living above the tunnel were complaining of vibration from the trains, so they lowered it to 30mph and it’s been that way ever since.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Not Metro but Southeastern seems to be taking a much more positive attitude to re-growing the peak than, say, SWR.

From their improvements page:

Train Timetables | Southeastern Railway

Check your train times before you travel. Download our timetables for updated routes and times along with helpful information for your journey.

www.southeasternrailway.co.uk

and



Nice to see some positive improvements for a change.

Have they got stock for this or is it dependant on more Networkers being resuscitated

 

[nw1]

Have they got stock for this or is it dependant on more Networkers being resuscitated

I've got no idea where the stock is coming from - sorry. Just reporting on Southeastern's upcoming timetable improvements.

 

[brad465]

According to some of the older drivers, it was 60mph throughout many years back, but residents living above the tunnel were complaining of vibration from the trains, so they lowered it to 30mph and it’s been that way ever since.

Presumably then the speed won't be changing unless the tunnel concrete lining planned also has a decent shock absorber element to it.

 

[FR510]

According to some of the older drivers, it was 60mph throughout many years back, but residents living above the tunnel were complaining of vibration from the trains, so they lowered it to 30mph and it’s been that way ever since.

I might be wrong but I heard it was due to the networkers being a bit wider and the secondary air suspension giving the carriages a bit more movement so the limit was imposed to avoid a possible tunnel strike.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Apr 2024 ==

Have they got stock for this or is it dependant on more Networkers being resuscitated

Is there the drivers for it!!

 

[brad465]

Is there the drivers for it!!

Or the stabling space for that matter.

 

[nw1]

Or the stabling space for that matter.

Have Southeastern lost any?

If they had the space for the pre-Covid timetable and they haven't lost any sidings etc, then presumably they do for the June enhancements.

Still, they've promised the enhancements so presumably they are coming.

 

[ScotGG]

Rounders from Sidcup to Abbey Wood for Elizabeth line connection back throughout peaks from December

Loop line Southeastern trains from Sidcup line to Elizabeth line returning - but only in peaks - Murky Depths

Loop line Southeastern trains from the Sidcup line will return to connect to Elizabeth line services at Abbey Wood from December this year

www.fromthemurkydepths.co.uk

 

[PGAT]

Rounders from Sidcup to Abbey Wood for Elizabeth line connection back throughout peaks from December

Loop line Southeastern trains from Sidcup line to Elizabeth line returning - but only in peaks - Murky Depths

Loop line Southeastern trains from the Sidcup line will return to connect to Elizabeth line services at Abbey Wood from December this year

www.fromthemurkydepths.co.uk

Um what? They already run in the peaks right now

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Um what? They already run in the peaks right now

There are only a couple now. There will be more from December.

 

[PGAT]

There are only a couple now. There will be more from December.

Okay. Still the article implies that this is a brand new service being revived from the ashes

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

There are only a couple now. There will be more from December.

Going to have to resuscitate some of those stored Networkers

 

[brad465]

Rounders from Sidcup to Abbey Wood for Elizabeth line connection back throughout peaks from December

Loop line Southeastern trains from Sidcup line to Elizabeth line returning - but only in peaks - Murky Depths

Loop line Southeastern trains from the Sidcup line will return to connect to Elizabeth line services at Abbey Wood from December this year

www.fromthemurkydepths.co.uk

If you don't mind me asking, are you the/an author of that website? I've read a number of articles/posts on it before in relation to Southeastern and what you say on there and on this forum are very similar (if you are this is not a criticism, just an observation).

 

[196]

Good morning. Long-time lurker, first time poster. Apologies if this question is not in the right place.

As someone whose local station is St. Mary Cray, it's quite annoying that the hourly Charing X -> Maidstone East service that was introduced skips St. Mary Cray, requiring getting off at Swanley instead and going back one station.

Is there a timetabling reason why this service could not also stop at St. Mary Cray like other fast services from Victoria (that also stop at Swanley) do?

Thanks in advance.

 

[30907]

Good morning. Long-time lurker, first time poster. Apologies if this question is not in the right place.

As someone whose local station is St. Mary Cray, it's quite annoying that the hourly Charing X -> Maidstone East service that was introduced skips St. Mary Cray, requiring getting off at Swanley instead and going back one station.

Is there a timetabling reason why this service could not also stop at St. Mary Cray like other fast services from Victoria (that also stop at Swanley) do?

Thanks in advance.

As it happens, yes - it would have to cross from the Slow (northernmost) to the Fast line at St Mary Cray Jn (to avoid delaying the Victoria-Ramsgate) at the same time as a train passes on the Up Slow, so you'd have to rewrite the timetable.

However, the main reason will be that it is meant to be a fast(er) train, making the same stops as the Victoria service which it replaces. Every extra stop slows it down and makes it less attractive to Maidstone (etc) passengers who pay rather more.

But there's no harm asking SE to consider it!

 

[196]

As it happens, yes - it would have to cross from the Slow (northernmost) to the Fast line at St Mary Cray Jn (to avoid delaying the Victoria-Ramsgate) at the same time as a train passes on the Up Slow, so you'd have to rewrite the timetable.

However, the main reason will be that it is meant to be a fast(er) train, making the same stops as the Victoria service which it replaces. Every extra stop slows it down and makes it less attractive to Maidstone (etc) passengers who pay rather more.

But there's no harm asking SE to consider it!

Thank you for the reply! I wasn't aware that it replaced a service from Victoria that also skipped St. Mary Cray, so thank you for that extra bit of context.

I'll definitely find out how I can ask (not holding out much hope, but you don't as you don't get), as it would be nice to be able to get to London Bridge without having to go to Orpington every time. Selfish, I know!

 

[Mikey C]

Taking a train on Saturday on the reopened Charlton to Blackheath line, there's curious padding in the service when compared to the trains via Greenwich.

For example the 17:35 from Charlton is timetabled to arrive at Blackheath at 17:41 and depart at 17:43, but actually arrived at 17:39, giving a 3-4 minutes wait before it departed.

It's then timetabled to wait at Lewisham for a further 3 minutes.

As a result it's now timetabled to take a ridiculous 27 minutes to reach London Bridge, whereas the Thameslink service via Greenwich 4 minutes later only takes 19 minutes. Are they deliberately trying to make the service unattractive?

 

[Horizon22]

Taking a train on Saturday on the reopened Charlton to Blackheath line, there's curious padding in the service when compared to the trains via Greenwich.

For example the 17:35 from Charlton is timetabled to arrive at Blackheath at 17:41 and depart at 17:43, but actually arrived at 17:39, giving a 3-4 minutes wait before it departed.

It's then timetabled to wait at Lewisham for a further 3 minutes.

As a result it's now timetabled to take a ridiculous 27 minutes to reach London Bridge, whereas the Thameslink service via Greenwich 4 minutes later only takes 19 minutes. Are they deliberately trying to make the service unattractive?

I wonder if it's timetabled in prep for leaf-fall season? Normally the mid-Kent line suffers quite badly with it.

 

[brad465]

Is the line speed through Blackheath tunnel any faster as a result of the work done? Just before the closure it was 30mph.

I wonder if it's timetabled in prep for leaf-fall season? Normally the mid-Kent line suffers quite badly with it.

Do you mean the North Kent line? The mid-Kent line is the Hayes' line (even though the name is a complete misnomer).

 

[Horizon22]

Is the line speed through Blackheath tunnel any faster as a result of the work done? Just before the closure it was 30mph.


Do you mean the North Kent line? The mid-Kent line is the Hayes' line (even though the name is a complete misnomer).

I did - and also via Bexleyheath

 

[NorthKent1989]

Taking a train on Saturday on the reopened Charlton to Blackheath line, there's curious padding in the service when compared to the trains via Greenwich.

For example the 17:35 from Charlton is timetabled to arrive at Blackheath at 17:41 and depart at 17:43, but actually arrived at 17:39, giving a 3-4 minutes wait before it departed.

It's then timetabled to wait at Lewisham for a further 3 minutes.

As a result it's now timetabled to take a ridiculous 27 minutes to reach London Bridge, whereas the Thameslink service via Greenwich 4 minutes later only takes 19 minutes. Are they deliberately trying to make the service unattractive?

It does seem that way, then again the entire line has been unattractive to use since 2018, and much worse since 2022

Also don’t forget, this service now collects air in St. John’s and New Cross, so that will increase the time

I personally think that if we’re going to be lumbered with the Thameslink they should reroute via Lewisham & Blackheath then on to Woolwich, Dartford and Medway, it’s clear SE don’t care for this service