Changes to Network Railcard T&Cs

[yardman]

Hi All,

I havent managed to find a thread on this issue on here (unless someone could advise).

I noticed that the conditions on use for railcards have changed from May onwards.

I purchased a railcard back in March to make use of my increased use of the railways as a result of my move to Chelmsford. On occasions i have to pop back to my old home town of Clacton (NXEA) so having a railcard would seem ideal. (ok the min fare was £10 on weekdays against £13 normal fare which was acceptable).

Now it seems the min fare is £13, that coupled with the fact the journey to clacton is also £13 means the card is pretty much redundant now. Even journeys into london (should i want to go there) is going to be ruled out by the travelcard min fare.

The point is, i signed to say i accept the terms when i bought the card. Now ther terms have changed i no longer accept them but now left with a card i can no longer make any use of. Surely this isnt fairv as i was not advised on any potential changes of conditions.

Any ideas and has anyone else had there cards rendered useless by the min fare increase?

Yardman

 

[OwlMan]

Hi All,

I havent managed to find a thread on this issue on here (unless someone could advise).

I noticed that the conditions on use for railcards have changed from May onwards.

I purchased a railcard back in March to make use of my increased use of the railways as a result of my move to Chelmsford. On occasions i have to pop back to my old home town of Clacton (NXEA) so having a railcard would seem ideal. (ok the min fare was £10 on weekdays against £13 normal fare which was acceptable).

Now it seems the min fare is £13, that coupled with the fact the journey to clacton is also £13 means the card is pretty much redundant now. Even journeys into london (should i want to go there) is going to be ruled out by the travelcard min fare.

The point is, i signed to say i accept the terms when i bought the card. Now ther terms have changed i no longer accept them but now left with a card i can no longer make any use of. Surely this isnt fairv as i was not advised on any potential changes of conditions.

Any ideas and has anyone else had there cards rendered useless by the min fare increase?

Yardman

I do not think there is much you can do. I can not see any clause in the T&Cs that has been broken (If you think different please post the clause that you think has been broken)


The terms and conditions do not state what the minimum fare is or what the time restrictions are, the clause just being "Minimum fares and time restrictions apply."

The is also a clause "The right is reserved to revise these Conditions and availability of the tickets detailed on the Network Railcard website. The Train Companies will endeavour to give three months' notice of any changes before they are due to come into effect."

Peter

 

[yardman]

Peter,

Sadly there is no clause that has been broken, it was more the principle of it. When you buy a priviledge card (by that i mean something that offers a discount), you dont generally expect it to change a month or two into getting it. Whats annoying is that they get you to sign to say you agree with the terms then change it.

Just another way of driving the people away from the railways. Afterall, how long has it been £20 for the card before they up'd it? not like they change the terms that often, just poor timing on my part,

Min fares and timings can be found here:
http://www.railcard.co.uk/network/tickets-types-min-fares#Minimum_fares

 

[tony_mac]

I would have thought that comes under the unfair terms in consumer contracts regulations

"unfair term" means any term which contrary to the requirement of good faith causes a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations under the contract to the detriment of the consumer.

A 'we can change the prices and restrictions arbitrarily' clause is certainly a significant imbalance!

 

[philjo]

When the min fare was originally introduced, they used a slightly different ticket stock so that it did not apply to existing card holders until they renewed.

 

[John @ home]

Sadly there is no clause that has been broken

I'm not sure about that. The terms and conditions of the Network Railcard http://www.railcard.co.uk/network/terms include:

The right is reserved to revise these Conditions and availability of the tickets detailed on the Network Railcard website. The Train Companies will endeavour to give three months' notice of any changes before they are due to come into effect.

I am fairly sure they did not give three months notice of this change. You could write to ATOC [http://www.atoc.org/contact.asp], the trade association which organises railcards for the train companies, to explain that you bought your railcard within three months of the change date, complain that the impending change was not drawn to your attention at the time of purchase, explain that as a result your railcard is not fit for purpose, and demand a refund. Ask them specifically what endeavours thay made on this occasion to give three months' notice of the changes.

If ATOC fail to help you then complain to Passenger Focus [http://www.passengerfocus.org.uk/contact-us/] about how you have been treated, ask them to help you to obtain a refund for your useless Network Card, ask them whether they are satisfied that on this occasion ATOC made reasonable endeavours to give three months' notice of the changes before they came into effect, and ask them what procedures they have in place to monitor the train companies' performance in giving the appropriate notice of changes to railcard conditions.

Don't expect a quick resolution!

John

 

[yardman]

I'm not sure about that. The terms and conditions of the Network Railcard http://www.railcard.co.uk/network/terms include:



I am fairly sure they did not give three months notice of this change. You could write to ATOC [http://www.atoc.org/contact.asp], the trade association which organises railcards for the train companies, to explain that you bought your railcard within three months of the change date, complain that the impending change was not drawn to your attention at the time of purchase, explain that as a result your railcard is not fit for purpose, and demand a refund. Ask them specifically what endeavours thay made on this occasion to give three months' notice of the changes.

If ATOC fail to help you then complain to Passenger Focus [http://www.passengerfocus.org.uk/contact-us/] about how you have been treated, ask them to help you to obtain a refund for your useless Network Card, ask them whether they are satisfied that on this occasion ATOC made reasonable endeavours to give three months' notice of the changes before they came into effect, and ask them what procedures they have in place to monitor the train companies' performance in giving the appropriate notice of changes to railcard conditions.

Don't expect a quick resolution!

John

Well it might well be worth complaining, will get on to that, seems a bit silly that imposing such strict restrictions seem necessary, particularly as the previous restrictions seemed suitable enough. thx john.

yardman


Just received an email back from Atoc saying they will refund (by railvouchers) the full cost of the ticket. seems such a pointless waste of time getting one of these, would have been easier leaving the T&Cs alone.

 

[mathmo]

They may well argue that minimum fares don't apply at weekends so you still have plenty of chance to use your card to get a discount!

 

[merlodlliw]

this might interest a few of you.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1178628/Railcard-holders-facing-50-rise-ticket-prices.html

just found it.

pleased to say our Council is selling railcards @ £19/99 which also includes the all Wales free bus pass, though one Council is offering them at only £5 in Salop. In a bizare twist of fate,Welsh Assembley Govt
have given Arriva £Ms to buy new buses to run a 4 X hourly service Wrexham to Chester Rail Station bus service 18 hours a day which is free to all bus card holders(over 60s etc) yet the hourly Arriva train service Wrexham to Chester which is only 10 mins or so quicker costs you a ticket.
Ah well polution, who cares

 

[BRX]

This is something that has irritated me too.

I bought my current Network Railcard on the 8th of May. This was just a week or so before the new £13 restriction was introduced.

I seem to remember, that before the changes, I saw something saying that the £13 thing would only apply to railcards bought after the date they changed things. I deliberately renewed my card before that date, because of this.

Of course, I now can't remember where I saw that - in the railcard leaflet, on the website, poster at a station? Or maybe I was imagining it.

 

[yorkie]

The TOCs think they are above the law. Until we start fighting back and taking them to court, they will continue to do this.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Just received an email back from Atoc saying they will refund (by railvouchers) the full cost of the ticket. seems such a pointless waste of time getting one of these, would have been easier leaving the T&Cs alone.

in other words, ATOC effectively admitting that they may have broken the law, and they want you to go away and not bother them again. Unfortunately many people will not have complained and will just accept it, so the TOCs are still raking in cash fraudulently. I'd say this is worth passing on to Passenger Focus and ask them to investigate.

 

[BRX]

If anyone else has a memory that we were told that these changes would only affect those who bought the card after the changeover date, please mention it on this thread. If there is some evidence somewhere that shows this was the case, I would be more than happy to bring a complaint to Passenger Focus.

I might do anyway. Although the last time I complained to PF (about the fares "simplification" process) I wasn't too impressed with the response.

 

[jon0844]

The £13 minimum is a joke and means my wife gets virtually no benefit at all with the partner card. If I'm with her on the weekend, she'd be getting the discount on my card anyway.

That's another benefit that I get as a Gold Card owner that's done away with. Why can't a partner card at least give my wife the same benefits that I get? (Don't answer; I already know the answer!).

 

[kkong]

It may be worth considering those of us who reside outside the so-called "Network Area" who are not fortunate to be able to purchase any kind of rail discount card.

 

[jon0844]

I have mentioned before that I think it's ridiculous that these 'deals' are only available in the former NSE area. Believe me, I'd be 100% in support of it covering the whole UK.

Gold Card owners would also get discounts on Intercity routes too, so it isn't even a case of those in the south east looking out for themselves!

 

[BRX]

It may be worth considering those of us who reside outside the so-called "Network Area" who are not fortunate to be able to purchase any kind of rail discount card.

It's not the only one - there is a 'Highland Railcard' available in the N of Scotland for example. Well there used to be, anyway.

 

[SWTCommuter]

I have mentioned before that I think it's ridiculous that these 'deals' are only available in the former NSE area. Believe me, I'd be 100% in support of it covering the whole UK.

I'll second that.
BR used to issue an Annual Season Ticket Holder's Railcard which, IIRC, gave 50% discount across the whole network and could be used by the season ticket holder and a second nominated adult. Sadly, it was replaced by the Gold Card and Network Card when NSE was formed. I wish I had kept the circular from NSE claiming this was an improvement!

There's a picture of one here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:AST-H_Railcard_(Pre-APTIS).JPG

 

[Zoe]

I have mentioned before that I think it's ridiculous that these 'deals' are only available in the former NSE area. Believe me, I'd be 100% in support of it covering the whole UK.

I doubt you would get it covering Northern Ireland as a different ticketing system is used there.

 

[nedchester]

I'll second that.
BR used to issue an Annual Season Ticket Holder's Railcard which, IIRC, gave 50% discount across the whole network and could be used by the season ticket holder and a second nominated adult. Sadly, it was replaced by the Gold Card and Network Card when NSE was formed. I wish I had kept the circular from NSE claiming this was an improvement!

There's a picture of one here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:AST-H_Railcard_(Pre-APTIS).JPG

Yep and amazing the number of enthusiasts (including me!) who bought annual seasons from Manchester Piccadilly to Oxford Road or Sheffield to Attercliffe!

 

[paul1609]

I have mentioned before that I think it's ridiculous that these 'deals' are only available in the former NSE area. Believe me, I'd be 100% in support of it covering the whole UK.

Gold Card owners would also get discounts on Intercity routes too, so it isn't even a case of those in the south east looking out for themselves!

I agree there should be nationwide parity of fares. obviously I expect no squealing from northerners when a Huddersfield to Leeds fare is doubled to bring in in line with a similar distance Littlehampton to Brighton return.

 

[bluenoxid]

I agree there should be nationwide parity of fares. obviously I expect no squealing from northerners when a Huddersfield to Leeds fare is doubled to bring in in line with a similar distance Littlehampton to Brighton return.

And a significant drop in our Council Taxes

 

[paul1609]

And a significant drop in our Council Taxes

if you are referring to your council taxes being used to subsidise PTE rail fare I think this was phased out at the time of privatisation with the rail subsidy to the PTEs being provided by the DfT.